FDP Forum / Rewind recommendations ?/ 25 messages in thread.

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JJuran

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Boston Area

Apr 1st, 2017 06:05 PM        

So I've got this Yamaha SA2100. Always wanted one and recently got it on a local CL ad. This one's very nice. Structurally perfect, plays wicked good. Feels wicked good. Lots of tone unplugged and at lower listening levels. It's been well taken care of for 30+ years. Got a good price too.<br /> <br /> Played it out at band practice a couple of times and noticed that I can't really get a good balance between neck and bridge. Neck p/up over-powers bridge no matter how close I get the bridge p/up to the strings and reduce the height of the neck p/up.<br /> <br /> Also, neither p/up does much justice to the tone of this guitar at gigging volumes. Hard to describe, but tonally, the guitar sounds kind of sterile at higher volume levels. I'm playing it through my 5E3.<br /> <br /> Can I get a recommendation about who could re-wind these pickups to PAF-tone, slightly hotter bridge, and put new leads on them re-using the covers and mounting legs?<br /> <br /> Thanks all



Peegoo

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The spotlight

looks like a prison break
Apr 1st, 2017 06:30 PM        

Before you go rewinding the pickups, test them for Ohms resistance with a meter. <br /> <br /> I'll betcha the more powerful pickup (higher Ohms reading) is in the neck position--which means either...<br /> <br /> 1. The factory goofed up and installed the bridge pickup in the neck position--and the neck pickup in the bridge position, or<br /> <br /> 2. Someone took the pickups out and reinstalled them bass ackwards...they may also be replacement pickups that are incorrectly installed.<br /> <br /> Ohm them out and report back!



Mick Reid

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Australia

American-made in Oz!!
Apr 1st, 2017 08:55 PM        

"Sound" advice from Peegoo...<br /> <br /> (get it???)<br /> <br /> ;^P



JJuran

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Boston Area

Apr 1st, 2017 10:59 PM        

Thanks Mick. I get it. :)<br />



ejm



usa

Apr 2nd, 2017 09:12 AM        

Note: You shouldn't need to remove them from the guitar, or disconnect any leads, to get an indication of this.<br /> <br /> Let us know what you find.<br />



Peegoo

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looks like a prison break
Apr 2nd, 2017 10:07 AM        

^^^Yes.<br /> <br /> You can plug a cable into the guitar and use your meter on the end of the cable.<br /> <br /> Just make sure to select the pickup under test with the guitar's selector switch, and dime the controls.<br /> <br /> If you want to get closer to the pickups' true resistance, first Ohm the cable (use a short one). Then test the pickups.<br /> <br /> Subtract the cable's Ohms reading from each pickup's Ohms reading and that will be really close.



ejm



usa

Apr 3rd, 2017 09:55 AM        

Peegoo: No offense, but it's not necessary to do the cable resistance thing. Not unless you have a bad cable, which is another science project, and in which case you shouldn't be using it anyway.<br /> <br /> The pickup should be in the greater than 5 Kohm range. The cable should be in the range of 5 ohms at the very worst. This difference is 0.1% and you're not going to be able to measure it accurately.<br /> <br /> So you are left with the resistance of the pickup in parallel with the pot(s). Generally, you should only be able to see the resistance of one pot (the volume control). You won't see the resistance of the tone pot, because it will have a capacitor somewhere between the "main" signal line and ground, which will prohibit your measuring any DC resistance.<br /> <br /> The pot resistance will probably be about 250 Kohms for single coil guitars. In the case of a humbucker guitar it will be about 500 Kohms.<br /> <br /> Worst case, with a 5 Kohm pickup in parallel with a 250 Kohm pot, the error is 2.0%. In this case, with a 5 Kohm pickup, you'd have an error of 100 ohms. IMO, not enough to bother with. Note that this is including the error of the value of the pot as well.<br /> <br /> In summation, the cable resistance error and the parallel pot error are probably beyond your ability to measure in this setup. If you want to start unsoldering things to chase down a few missing ohms, have fun.<br /> <br /> As was said, it is important to have the controls up full. If you connect it up, and gradually turn the volume control down, you will see the reading go to zero ohms.<br /> <br /> If both of your pickups are the same model, you should see the same reading for each one individually. If you set the selector switch to both on, the reading will be half since both pickups are in parallel.<br /> <br /> Note that we are assuming that there is no funny business going on like capacitors in series with the signal path. I have seen a couple cases, namely some Rickenbacker basses, that have this and can throw you for a loop. In those cases, you need to "adjust" your methodology.<br /> <br /> Also, your guitar must be passive, with no preamps or the like.<br />



ejm



usa

Apr 3rd, 2017 10:08 AM        

Also, to take a different approach to rewinding.............<br /> <br /> I'd vote no.<br /> <br /> Even though this guitar probably doesn't have any insane vintage mojo pricing like a 59 LP or whatever, it does have some or may at some point have some collectibility. <br /> <br /> For the cost of rewinding, I think that you'd get more bang for your buck by just doing some research and getting a set of new replacement pups that are to your liking.<br /> <br /> And before you do any of that, I'd make sure that there is actually something wrong first, and then finding out exactly what it is. There may not be anything wrong at all. Maybe your "vision" of this guitar did not live up to its reality. (I've had that happen.)<br /> <br /> If you really want to do the rewind thing, I see from your tag that you're in the Boston area. There should be a few reputable shops in the area that can give you some advice.<br /> <br /> And by the way: Really NICE looking guitar.<br />



Hammond101

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So. Cal. USA

Apr 3rd, 2017 02:30 PM        

After some measuring and to answer your original question, I'd recommend Jason Lollar for rewind. You may only need one PU rewound possibly none if they are swapped in the guitar.<br /> <br /> Jason has always done fine PU work for me whether a six string PU od something custom for a lap steel I was building.



Peegoo

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looks like a prison break
Apr 3rd, 2017 02:36 PM        

No offense taken. <br /> <br /> It's always good to measure the cable when measuring anything through it. You have to rule out as many things as possible.



ejm



usa

Apr 3rd, 2017 04:21 PM        

If someone is leery of the cable they're using, they can simply try another cable. That should do it. Notice I said *should*; You could have more than one bad cable, which means it's time to step back and reassess your whole set up.<br /> <br /> And if you are really paranoid about a cable, you can also use a bare plug inserted into the guitar, measuring across the tip and sleeve.<br /> <br /> Also, back to the OP.........<br /> <br /> Reading closer, it appears that there are two issues.<br /> 1) Balance between the pickups (meaning just one could be bad).<br /> 2) Overall tonality. THAT could be a number of things, none related to the guitar.<br /> The user, amp, cable(s), any effects, and so on......<br />



JJuran

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Boston Area

Apr 3rd, 2017 09:09 PM        

Thanks Hammond, Peegoo, and ejm. Here are the DC resistance readings measured with just a bare plug in the jack measuring across tip and sleeve, volume controls wide open.<br /> <br /> Neck = 8.04K<br /> Bridge = 8.09K<br /> <br /> No surprises here at all. No significant difference at all. Nothing is "bad" or broken or mis-asssembled. I already know that. And the readings just confirm my suspicion that Yamaha, like many other manufacturers during the early-mid 80's didn't compensate the pickups for the lesser string vibration at the bridge. I've owned and played SGs and Les Pauls in the 80's where the bridge p/up just didn't have the output the neck had. Neck p/ups lowered as far as they can go, bridge poles nearly touching the strings before any kind of balance was attained. It wasn't impossible to balance their output, they just didn't come from the factory well balanced at all back then. These days of course, not the case. All pickup sets these days get some kind of quasi-"calibration" to help them balance more readily after installation and initial setup. That's really just winding the bridge more than the neck by about 1K.<br /> <br /> I'd be surprised if Seymour Duncan or Jason Lollar advised against a rewind on these p/ups. That's why I wanted to hear from players who have actually had factory p/ups rewound and were they happy with the results or not.



gdw3



LA-la-land, CA

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Apr 4th, 2017 12:42 PM        

Why go to the trouble? Why not just keep the ones you have, for collectible sake, and get a new set? I can't imagine re-winding is much (if any) of a cost savings....



Viera

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Santee CA

Poser extraordinaire
Apr 4th, 2017 01:31 PM        

Replacement pups would look odd on that guitar unless they were factory "aged". Could be a reason for the rewind inquiry by the OP?



JJuran

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Boston Area

Apr 4th, 2017 04:45 PM        

Yes Viera - it is one of the reasons for the inquiry. That, and the 3-screw mounting. New bezels are flat on the bottom. Would be cutting and sanding them to fit the arch top of the guitar. Moreover, I wouldn't be surprised if the 4 bezel mounting holes didn't line up precisely with the holes already in the body. I need to check that.<br /> <br /> One option would be Duncan Antiquities but those are $300 street price for the set. Then there's the shaping of the bezels to the archtop. I'm pretty sure I can rewind the originals at about $60 per coil, total about $240. I think that's what Lindy Fralin charges for rewinds.<br /> <br /> For now I've got the balance issue almost corrected. It will never be where I want it. I'll keep playing for a while.



Cal-Woody



USA/California

Why do I keep fixing things that work?
Apr 4th, 2017 05:28 PM        

For replacing the pickup bezels, you can use the half-pencil method like I do to determine the slot depth on replacing the nut.<br /> Just drop down your pickups and fasten the new bezel (one at a time) in place, then put some low tack painters tape and scribe the new profile onto the outside of your bezel and file/grind to the shape needed. The bezel closest to the neck will be similar to the profile of the side toward the center, but may be a little shallower because of the body shape. <br /> It's just time consuming but can be done easily. <br /> Just a thought.....<br /> Woody



Stratmanx

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Memphis, TN

Apr 5th, 2017 01:36 PM        

If your still wanting more, my go to guy is Lindy Fralin. <br /> <br /> I've sent him at least a 1/2 dozen pickups that were either open, or needed to be "made correct again". <br /> <br /> He's recently made right a set of Gibson T-Tops I experimented from my 70's LP. I butchered a long time ago. defense, that was decades ago and I was just learning the craft. <br /> <br /> Lindy's great to work with and will talk guitars and pickups with you like the guy next door. <br /> <br /> Great work, and a great shop.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br />



ejm



usa

Apr 5th, 2017 04:06 PM        

Stratmanx wrote:<br /> <br /> "He's done a set of Gibson T-Tops I pulled from my 1974 Les Paul a long time ago and decided to wire them for coil splitting and tapping, and really did a crap job of it."<br /> <br /> Since it sounds like you are a Lindy fan, I assume that YOU are the one who did the "crap job" and NOT Lindy Fralin.<br /> <br /> When I first read this it sounded like Lindy was the bad guy.<br /> <br /> If I am correct, I'd suggest that you go back and re-edit your post (typing a retraction will not fix the previous post if you leave it untouched), so others that might read it in the future do not get the wrong impression.<br />



stratcowboy

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USA/Taos, NM

Apr 5th, 2017 07:15 PM        

That's what I was thinking...



Stratmanx

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Memphis, TN

Apr 29th, 2017 01:58 PM        

OH SH#% !!!<br /> <br /> Gotta correct that NOW !<br /> <br />



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