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FDP Forum / FDP Unplugged - Acoustic Instruments / Ivoroid binding on my Martin D-42 has separated at the waist on both sides of the back
(This message was last edited by stratcowboy at 04:29 PM, Oct 10th, 2019)
(This message was last edited by Chris Greene at 10:38 AM, Oct 16th, 2019)
FDP Forum / FDP Unplugged - Acoustic Instruments / Ivoroid binding on my Martin D-42 has separated at the waist on both sides of the back
Previous 20 Messages
Peegoo
Contributing Member
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Lauren's
a tractorOct 10th, 2019 12:52 PM Edit Profile
That is not binding separating from the wood as a result of something you did (e.g., exposure to excessive heat).
That pic shows the result of faulty materials and/or faulty workmanship.
What you have there is binding de-laminating; it's separating from itself.
Chris Greene
FDP Host
Idaho, USA
Buy your virtue signal hereOct 10th, 2019 01:34 PM Edit Profile
Just got off the phone with Martin's CS manager who will take the guitar in for repair at Martin and pay the return shipping. She said it was a not uncommon problem with some years. I will have to be more patient on getting the repair done timewise but I suspect they will do the job right (this time...).
Peegoo
Contributing Member
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Lauren's
a tractorOct 10th, 2019 01:54 PM Edit Profile
Cool.
stratcowboy
Contributing Member
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USA/Taos, NMOct 10th, 2019 02:28 PM Edit Profile
Yikes!! To say that that is a totally unacceptable outcome on such a pricey guitar is serious understatement. That's ridiculous, it seems. Hope it is done to your satisfaction--and promptly.
My high-end Guild (see profile) had a defective neck early on (when they were owned by Fender). It went back to their custom repair shop in Nashville, via Woodsong's Lutherie in Boulder. Guild built an entirely new neck for the guitar and sent me photos of the wood they were using and all other details. I paid the shipping to Guild, then when it was time for return, they FedEx'd overnight back at their expense (can't imagine what that would have cost). They also don't ship at the end of the week. Their premise was/is that they didn't want the guitar sitting in a truck or a warehouse over a weekend. They wanted the instrument back where it was supposed to be the next day. Thus avoiding any unanticipated problems.
Hope it goes the same for you.
(Think I'll go take a close look at the binding.... ;-/)
ecwanab
MoJo, Minnesota
Jump in and hang onOct 10th, 2019 05:38 PM Edit Profile
Life time warrantee. I had a 000-42 that did the same thing.
FlyonNylon
Contributing Member
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East TennesseeOct 11th, 2019 12:21 AM Edit Profile
Wow that's pretty disappointing. Sounds like it will be fixed right but seems like an issue that should not occur on such a fine instrument that's obviously been well cared for.
Chris Greene
FDP Host
Idaho, USA
Buy your virtue signal hereOct 11th, 2019 12:40 AM Edit Profile
It galls the hell out of me, FN. You know, my 1995 Yamaha FG-461s that I've owned for 24 years is about like new. No hint of issues like the frickin' binding separating from the side and this was a $500 guitar. While I got an accommodation price on the D-42, it's still a very expensive guitar. Sadly, this seems to be not totally uncommon across Martin's range from low to high price guitars.
I have to say, I am tempted to try to repair it myself as the worst I can do (other than mess up the job) is void the binding part of the warranty.
One thing for certain, as much as I love these two Martins for their sound and playability, I won't buy another from them.
twangdoodles
michigan usaOct 11th, 2019 04:27 AM Edit Profile
I bought a new D-18 in 2016. Within a year the binding had shrunk (just about everywhere, including the end wedge) enough to break the clear-coat. I sent it to Martin who just sprayed more clear over it and buffed, not caring much that the neck joint now looks odd. Yeah, they payed return shipping but I think they should pay the $180 it cost me to send it there. Color me not very happy with them.
If you're not already familiar, Martin won't return your guitar unless or until the temps are above freezing.
jhawkr
Contributing Member
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Wichita, KS USA
Retired April 26, 2019Oct 11th, 2019 04:46 AM Edit Profile
Looks like a glue fail to me. Like the glue never set properly. I'm going to have to pull my 000-28EC out and inspect. I have to say I rarely pay much attention to the back.
hushnel
Contributing Member
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North Florida
A Friend of Bill W.Oct 11th, 2019 08:03 AM Edit Profile
That would upset me too. I would fix it myself. I know I don’t have the repair experience as a Martin luthier, but they didn’t get it right either.
It should never of been a problem. I have a few cheap decent guitars that have never come apart, you expect better from Martin.
littleuch
Contributing Member
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FloridaOct 11th, 2019 08:11 AM Edit Profile
Well, I'm sure there are dozens of Martins being pulled from their cases and inspected as a result of this thread. :-p I know I just did. I have an intermediate/discontinued D17M that I bought around 6 or 7 years ago. Knock on sitka spruce but it has been an outstanding guitar in stability, play-ability and tone. I know I would be distressed if I paid big bucks for a Martin only to have binding go boing.
Peegoo
Contributing Member
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Lauren's
a tractorOct 11th, 2019 08:44 AM Edit Profile
"Looks like a glue fail to me."
Yep. They used to use a solvent (acetone, dichloromethane, MEK, etc.), to bond the plastic. The solvent softens the two plastic surfaces; they are joined by a chemical weld as the solvent evaporates, permanently bonding the two layers together.
The stuff they used here was a surface adhesive that dried out and simply let go. Pretty bad.
RDR
Contributing Member
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I tried to think
but nothing happened!Oct 12th, 2019 02:12 PM Edit Profile
They should pay shipping both ways.
Chris Greene
FDP Host
Idaho, USA
Buy your virtue signal hereOct 12th, 2019 04:46 PM Edit Profile
Yes, they should.
Chris Greene
FDP Host
Idaho, USA
Buy your virtue signal hereOct 15th, 2019 04:01 PM Edit Profile
After spending some time with them on the phone, I think I'll deal with Acoustic Music in Salt Lake . Even though it's 20 miles further than the guy up in Challis, ID, it's all freeway. Also, they offered to let me use their shipping account where the shipping price would only be $45 each way. The other alternative is to make an appointment, drop it off, go vacation down south for a few days and pick it up on my return.
They asked for a few more photos so if you're interested, check the Flickr link.
stratcowboy
Contributing Member
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USA/Taos, NMOct 15th, 2019 04:26 PM Edit Profile
Sheeeesh! What a shame; such a beautiful guitar.
reverend mikey
Contributing Member
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N of I-90, E of I-29
You're old. Then vintage. Then good!Oct 16th, 2019 08:28 AM Edit Profile
Sounds like the best option, Chris. I would NOT want to ship it back to Martin (on your dime) and wait up to six months for such a minor repair.
It's a bummer - this should not have happened on a Martin - but it is what it is.
In all the discussion of this here and on the Martin forum, no one ever mentioned if Martin was able to go back to the supplier of the failed adhesive and get any kind of reimbursement or credit from them... I know that's unlikely, but some companies would probably pursue it.
Chris Greene
FDP Host
Idaho, USA
Buy your virtue signal hereOct 16th, 2019 08:43 AM Edit Profile
The thing is, Mikey, if it happened to the binding on the bottom waist, will it also happen on the top? As the luthier pointed out from looking at the photos, the binding actually separated from the black purfling, not the wood itself. It's a plastic to plastic connection that failed.
If I get a later separation from the top, which seems fine at the moment, a trip to SLC will be far easier than a shipment to Nazareth. It's such a great sounding and playing guitar that it's probably worth this hassle to get it taken care of. But I will never buy another Martin guitar. At my age, I've got too much stuff already. ;o)
jhawkr
Contributing Member
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Wichita, KS USA
Retired April 26, 2019Oct 16th, 2019 12:58 PM Edit Profile
I got around to checking my 000-28EC today and it is fine. I would buy another Martin but I also have way too much stuff as well.
reverend mikey
Contributing Member
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N of I-90, E of I-29
You're old. Then vintage. Then good!Oct 16th, 2019 01:01 PM Edit Profile
I understand all of your sentiments. Actually, while they have it there, I'd ask them if they could go ahead and "split" the top bindings apart and reglue them - just so that you won't have to make another trip in the future.
But, yeah - love/hate relationships with our gear.
It's like when something goes wrong on a vehicle that you otherwise really love, and love to drive. Suddenly you feel less love for the vehicle. But once it's fixed, the love returns, and its a great car/truck/SUV again!
Same with guitars. I had a 2-3 old Larrivee that I loved (ordered/bought new - typical for me as a lefty player). I noticed the bridge starting to lift - Ugh!!!
Larrivee approved a local luthier repair (through the dealer where I purchased it). This luthier had a great reputation, and after I got my Larrivee back, I was in love again, and since then - some 24 years later - that bridge hasn't budged (that luthier, in Lincoln, NE, died some years ago, RIP). Still my #1 Larrivee.
I have several Martins I feel the same about. Fortunately, I haven't had any binding or neck or QC issues. If I do, I'll try to remain calm, drive them up to the twin cities (Minn./St. Paul - around 2.5 - 3 hours away) where there are several excellent luthiers. They'll take good care of me (as they did on another old Larrivee I purchased, which needed compression fretting, as it doesn't have an adjustable truss rod).
Hard to remember that guitars are made out of wood and other fragile parts that can move/split/twist/belly/fail.
Previous 20 Messages
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