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FDP Forum / Guitar Mods, Repairs, and Projects / Strat - adding series wiring problem

Strabo

Ireland

Apr 3rd, 2019 02:56 AM   Edit   Profile  

Morning all, I have encountered a slight problem with the enclosed strat series/parallel wiring. It seems to promise an excellent solution (choice of parallel or series wiring in positions 2 and 4 on the selector switch, depending on position of DPDT switch).

However:

I have used a combined tonepot/push push switch and tried to assemble this circuit, with the following results (for the purposes of this exposition, I have assumed the view in the diagram is in all cases from the bottom of the selector switch and tone pot, and that the DPDT switch is depicted such that the top two lugs in the diagram are the two lugs just beneath the beneath the bottom of the tone pot. On the strat selector switch, position 1 is the neck position, 2 is neck/middle, 3 is middle, etc:

With push-push DPDT switch down,

strat selector switch position:

1: neck pickup live
2:nothing live
3:nothing live
4:nothing live
5:bridge pickup live


With DPDT switch up,

strat selector switch position:

1: neck and middle live, bridge buzzes weirdly when touched with a screwdriver
2: neck buzzes weirdly when touched with a screwdriver, mid live, bridge buzzes weirdly when touched with a screwdriver
3: mid live
4: neck buzzes weirdly when touched with a screwdriver, mid live, bridge buzzes weirdly when touched with a screwdriver
5: neck live, but buzzes weirdly when touched with a screwdriver, mid live

Is there something up with the diagram? I have tried to get my head round it but it is just beyond my ability to picture. I know there are some especially able electricians on here, so I would be very grateful for any suggestions!

Best,

Strabo.

It's fig. 2 on this page

(This message was last edited by Strabo at 04:59 AM, Apr 3rd, 2019)

Strabo

Ireland

Apr 3rd, 2019 07:12 AM   Edit   Profile  

Also, just for orientation purposes, the two commons on the selector switch as I have it wired are:

the bottom left lug (with the grey wire connected to lug 3 of the vol pot).

and:

the top right lug (with the two green wires going to top left and bottom right lug of the DPDT switch).

Peegoo
Contributing Member
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Just beyond Mars

there's a world of fools
Apr 3rd, 2019 08:08 AM   Edit   Profile  

May seem like a goofy question, but:

Note that there's no provision for ground connections between the pots in that diagram. Do you have the pot cases daisy-chained for ground? Even if you have foil shielding on the back of the pickguard, some pots have cases that are insulated from their threaded mounting faces.

You can test this by setting your meter to continuity beep and probing across the pots' cases.

Get this sorted and report back, and we can go from there.

Strabo

Ireland

Apr 3rd, 2019 08:22 AM   Edit   Profile  

Hi Peegoo,

excellent spot and my apologies, I should have said: there is an aluminium shield on the back of the whole pickguard, and I think this is grounding the three pots together.

(and I should learn to read your posts properly - there is - now checked - continuity between all three, they are ordinary CTS pots and so earth to the shaft).

(This message was last edited by Strabo at 10:30 AM, Apr 3rd, 2019)

Te 52

Laws of Physics

strictly enforced
Apr 3rd, 2019 10:57 AM   Edit   Profile  

I haven't had time to look at this in detail, but the first thing that jumps out at me is that none of the three solder lugs on the volume pot is grounded. There should be a short jumper between the #1 leftmost lug (where the black wire from the jack is connected) and the back of the pot.

Strabo

Ireland

Apr 3rd, 2019 12:37 PM   Edit   Profile  

The ground lug of the vol pot is grounded and bent back and soldered to the back of the pot. The two tone pots work as they should, so those grounds are presumably sound as well.


(edited as I put 'earth' for 'ground' like the European I am!)

(This message was last edited by Strabo at 02:38 PM, Apr 3rd, 2019)

Te 52

Laws of Physics

strictly enforced
Apr 3rd, 2019 12:55 PM   Edit   Profile  

OK, I'll dig deeper into the wiring diagram you provided to see if I can find a problem.

Strabo

Ireland

Apr 3rd, 2019 02:34 PM   Edit   Profile  

That would be much appreciated!

Peegoo
Contributing Member
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Just beyond Mars

there's a world of fools
Apr 4th, 2019 05:12 PM   Edit   Profile  

Strabo, can you post a pic or three of your wiring--especially the 5-way switch and how you have it run to your push-pull switch?

You can post pics to www.imgbb.com without need for an account or signing up. You just upload a pic (UPLOAD button in the upper right), copy its URL, and paste it in the Link Address (URL) line below,

like this.

(This message was last edited by Peegoo at 07:19 PM, Apr 4th, 2019)

Te 52

Laws of Physics

strictly enforced
Apr 4th, 2019 08:55 PM   Edit   Profile  

The Dirk Wacker design you linked to will not work as drawn, in fact, it's such a mess I'm surprised it ever got published. Whether it is a bad design or whether the drawing does not accurately depict his circuit I can't say. But I note that he no longer shows this design on his own website singlecoil.com > diy area > guitar.

The concept is nice, but this is a surprisingly complex wiring problem, and I can say with confidence that it is not possible to get the performance that is promised using a standard Strat 5-way switch and a single DPDT switch.

I can get the result you want, but it takes a 4-pole 5-way Superswitch as a selector and a 4PDT toggle or a Fender S-1 switch as the parallel/series switch. And even then your're restricted to a single master tone control. Schematic at link.

If that appeals to you and you'd like to pursue it further, come back.

custom wiring 2019040501

(This message was last edited by Te 52 at 12:16 PM, Apr 5th, 2019)

Strabo

Ireland

Apr 5th, 2019 12:58 AM   Edit   Profile  

Morning all, and many thanks for responses. Peegoo, I shall attempt to post pics of my wiring, but I am sure I had wired the wiring loom exactly as illustrated (and clearly wasted considerable time checking and double-checking it was correct, indeed even going so far as to check that the switch was switching correctly). From what Te52 has said, all that was pointless...

Te52, once again I stand in awe of your electrical excellence - that looks astonishingly complex.

I think there may be a life lesson in here somewhere in that as I had had such good experiences with the expertise displayed by people on here in the past, I was disposed to blindly believe anyone who posted a wiring diagram on the net and had a fancy gig writing for a guitar magazine. When I looked at that wiring diagram I couldn't for the life of me work out how it should work, but I put my trust in the authority bestowed by Guitar-Strangler Monthly, or whatever it was. Turns out, people can be wrong on the internet. I think this is a fact that should be more widely known.

I shall begin an in-depth study of that diagram at once and attempt to work out how to post some pics, and report back in a bit - many thanks for the invariably impressive expertise displayed!

Peegoo
Contributing Member
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Just beyond Mars

there's a world of fools
Apr 5th, 2019 08:16 AM   Edit   Profile  

The trick to understanding this stuff is knowing which tabs on the switch have continuity across them for each switch position. See link below.

The two colors represent the two halves of the switch.

The dotted line indicates the two pointers (the contacts on the switch lever) are mechanically connected; in reality, they're on opposite sides of the same lever.

For example, when the pink side is on 5, the blue side is on 5, and you have continuity between tab 0 and tab 5 on each side of the switch.

Note that the two sides of the switch are electrically isolated from each other. If you need to route signal from one side of the switch to the other, you must add a jumper wire from one side to the other.

For 5-way operation, the switch has a stop between positions 1 & 3, and 3 & 5. In these positions, the two tabs are active. For example, positions 1 & 3 are "on" for both sides of the switch--meaning, you have continuity between tab 0 and tabs 1 & 3 on both sides.

The only other confusing thing with these switches is there's no real standard for what position 1 is used for. What I mean is it can be either the neck pickup or the bridge pickup. Some players call the neck detent "position 1." But most players (in my experience) call the bridge "position 1."

Look here.

Te 52

Laws of Physics

strictly enforced
Apr 5th, 2019 10:20 AM   Edit   Profile  

Found an omission in my earlier drawing. Circuit actually requires a 4-pole series/parallel switch.

Rather than leave an incorrect drawing linked, I edited my original post. Anyone who downloaded or printed out the previous version, please delete and replace with revision "A".

Peegoo
Contributing Member
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Just beyond Mars

there's a world of fools
Apr 5th, 2019 10:56 AM   Edit   Profile  

You're way better than Dirk Wacker :o)

Te 52

Laws of Physics

strictly enforced
Apr 5th, 2019 02:18 PM   Edit   Profile  

Just to torture myself mentally, I took a look at what the Dirk Wacker circuit actually does. In doing so, I realized the description in Premier Guitar was somewhat misleading. My reading of it was that with the series/parallel switch down, you had a normal Strat. With the S/P switch up, you would have a normal Strat except that in positions 2 and 4, the pickups would be in series, not in parallel.

I found that not to be the case. With the S/P switch down, the selector switch did deliver the normal expected Strat combinations, although the tone controls were kind of random.

With the S/P switch up in series mode, positions 2 and 4 did yield N*M and M*B, but the single coil positions (1,3,5) were altered from their normal function, either duplicating a series combination or having no output. Also, with the S/P switch up, the tone controls were really messed up, sometimes the signal had to pass through the inductance of an unused pickup to get to a tone control, and it's unclear to me how that would behave.

But to get back to the original topic, the Dirk Wacker circuit should have given Strabo the normal five Strat combinations with the S/P switch down, so apparently there is some kind of error in the implementation.

Strabo

Ireland

Apr 6th, 2019 01:51 AM   Edit   Profile  

Many thanks for 5-way switch elucidation, Peegoo - particularly useful is the juxtaposition of electrical diagram and actual representation; I sometimes find it the devil's own job to picture an electrical diagram (which I understand) as actual components, and indeed sometimes vice versa, but that is admirably clear.

Yes, the Wacker diagram made little sense to me when I saw it, but it promised exactly what I wanted (option for series alignment) in what seemed to be an agreeably logical arrangement, so I rather assumed that it worked and I was just too dense to make sense of it.

I wanted to post pictures of a diagram that I might use instead (and which you may already know), but my scanner, or rather the software that drives it, is on the fritz. The circuit involves using the same DPDT switch and a standard 5-way selector, and with the switch down gives ordinary strat wiring; with the switch up, it gives:


1 neck and mid in series
2 neck alone
3 dead
4 bridge alone
5 bridge and mid in series

I have used it before in a strat with good results, and would have used it this time round; the only hitch is the dead air in position 3, and this is why I entertained the Wacker diagram - it promised a more logical order of pickup options and also had no dead spots. But it was promising rather more than it could deliver, it would seem...


FDP Forum / Guitar Mods, Repairs, and Projects / Strat - adding series wiring problem




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