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FDP Forum / The 'Pup' Tent / PAF for Tele

Previous 20 Messages  
twangdoodles

michigan usa

Jan 6th, 2019 07:02 PM   Edit   Profile  

I'm sorry pcalu, but nothing you've said makes any sense to me either.

I will point out that if pickups were designed for specific scale-lengths then you can bet your rear end that manufacturers would be marketing that along side all the other minutia like wire specs, etc.

Peegoo
Contributing Member
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Just beyond Mars

there's a world of fools
Jan 6th, 2019 07:15 PM   Edit   Profile  

Pickup makers do accommodate string spread, since vibrato-equipped guitars generally have more string-to-string space between them.

But even so, a Gibson-spaced humbucker in a Strat's bridge position still works really well. A string doesn't have to be directly over the center of a pickup's polepiece to properly generate current in the coil. A magnet's field is toroidal--not linear.

Cal-Woody

USA/California

Why do I keep fixing things that work?
Jan 6th, 2019 07:18 PM   Edit   Profile  

I wonder if a mini-humbucker would suit your tastes? My old Les Paul deluxe had mini-humbuckers in it and were a little on the bright side and think that it would play nicely with a Tele bridge pickup.
If a Gibson one is not available, you could probably try out some Seymour Duncan's and various other makers and I think get a nice balance between the two.


Achase4u
Contributing Member
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U.S. - Virginia

Jan 6th, 2019 07:56 PM   Edit   Profile  

Indeed, Peegoo. I have standard G spaced 49.2 mm E to E buckers in my short scale Tele with vintage string spacing. I don't notice anything. It's a "field" not laser beams.

Achase4u
Contributing Member
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U.S. - Virginia

Jan 6th, 2019 07:56 PM   Edit   Profile  

Mini hums and firebirds are great semi bright sounding buckers.

vomer
Contributing Member
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Two layers bar tape

And a triple chainset
Jan 7th, 2019 12:21 PM   Edit   Profile  

I'm just enjoying this thread watching someone try to teach Te52 'Guitar "general knowledge 101"', unquote :)

Having said that, I think I see what he's getting at. Pcalu, are you referring to the length of string which will be in the pickup's magnetic field and contributing to the sound? Like how a PAF 'senses' a longer length of string than a single coil? Even so, I could only imagine the differences between harmonic content of a length of string due to different tension between different scale lengths would be infinitesimal.

mr.gibson

Hamilton, Canada

Music is your only friend....
Jan 7th, 2019 12:36 PM   Edit   Profile  

I had thought that it was more or less common knowledge that "Gibsons and Fenders differ in sound primarily because of the scale length. That's why putting a Gibson pickup in a Fender won't make the guitar sound like a Gibson."

I have no idea if that's true, but had read it enough times that I believed it.

Leftee
Contributing Member
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VA

Jan 7th, 2019 01:22 PM   Edit   Profile  

It’s all good.

You can even plug a Fender guitar with a Gibson pickup into a Marshall amp.

This isn’t Ghostbusters.

(This message was last edited by Leftee at 03:26 PM, Jan 7th, 2019)

Achase4u
Contributing Member
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U.S. - Virginia

Jan 7th, 2019 02:31 PM   Edit   Profile  

I've got a short scale Tele with paf sized buckers in it... still doesn't sound like a Les Paul.

Which is totally fine by me. But this tells me there is more at work than scale length. Neck through vs bolt on, mahogany vs maple and alder or ash. Blah blah blah. It makes noise. That's good enough for my playing ability.

Peegoo
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Just beyond Mars

there's a world of fools
Jan 7th, 2019 03:55 PM   Edit   Profile  

The materials used in a guitar do matter and they affect the tone quite a bit.

The scale length does affects the sound; the tighter string tension of the Fender scale gives the guitar a snappier, speedier response than the shorter, looser, slower Gibson scale. It's subtle, but it is there.

"No blah blah blah!" haha!

mr.gibson

Hamilton, Canada

Music is your only friend....
Jan 7th, 2019 04:50 PM   Edit   Profile  

If you read enough guitar discussion forums you will eventually learn that no part of an electric guitar has any effect on the sound except pickups, especially the favorite pickups of the person posting.

Leftee
Contributing Member
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VA

Jan 7th, 2019 04:51 PM   Edit   Profile  

^truth^

Te 52

Laws of Physics

strictly enforced
Jan 7th, 2019 05:11 PM   Edit   Profile  

You will also eventually learn that Philips head pickguard screws impart a different tone to the guitar compared to slotted head screws.

Except that you are probably too much of a Philistine to detect the difference, which only those with a more cultured and refined sense of hearing can appreciate.

Leftee
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VA

Jan 7th, 2019 05:34 PM   Edit   Profile  

Big dose of truth!

pcalu

usa Thumb area Mi

Jan 7th, 2019 07:51 PM   Edit   Profile  

Unfortunately... most of you have gotten pitch and frequency totally confused... then got lost big time from there...




""""As Achase4u suggests, If a string is tuned to a fundamental frequency of 165 Hz (standard tuning for guitar 1st string), it means *by definition* that it is vibrating at 165 Hz.

It doesn't matter what the string gauge is or what the scale length is, if a string is tensioned to the point that it is sounding E4, it's vibrating at 165 Hz. Period.

Any statement to the contrary simply doesn't make sense""""

sure it does...




Although this sounds good its wrong.


You two assume that the wavelength at 165 Hz is uniform.

It is not!

If it was.... then all instruments would sound exactly the same when they played the exact same note at the same pitch. A piano playing a note that is vibrating at 256 Hz ( a miidle C ) does not sound like a guitar playing a C at 256 hz

Why is that?

Timbre (tone quality, color) is what differentiates two sounds in the same frequency

Because wavelength and the frequencies are NOT uniform. Timbre makes all wavelengths and frequency difference and unique.


If you took a 25.5 scale guitar and made a 24.5 with exactly the same materials the timbre of the increase scale length would affect the wavelength. In this case, you will hear a slight difference in the Timbra between the two guitars derived from the increased tension of the string coming from the scale length. regardless if they play the same note in ....165 Hz

here is a simple timbre explanation

http://www.simplifyingtheory.com/timbre/

So yes there is an audible difference in guitars of different scale length and it's just not the difference in material. However.... Yes the difference in the materials does contribute to the timbre difference to a much greater degree than just the scale length... none the less.... the scale length on its own provides an audible difference in the timbre of the instrument (i,e, frequency and wavelength of the notes it produces regardless of the HZ

Can't explain it simpler.

Enjoy the day

(This message was last edited by pcalu at 10:09 PM, Jan 7th, 2019)

Achase4u
Contributing Member
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U.S. - Virginia

Jan 7th, 2019 09:22 PM   Edit   Profile  

"Unfortunately... most of you have gotten pitch and frequency totally confused... then got lost big time from there..."

There is nothing to confuse. A pitch is simply a specific frequency. If we are lost, it'
s because your use of terms makes it somewhat difficult to follow. Let me help a bit.

"You two assume that the wavelength at 165 Hz is uniform.

It is not!"

You are incorrect about the wavelength being different. It is *exactly* the wave *length* that determines the frequency, which in turn determines the pitch. You can't have an E 165hz that is a different wavelength that of a 165hz wav. That is all there is to it.

Now, what I *think* you are getting at is the harmonics generated by an instrument. That is not frequency, nor wavelength. Length describes a frequency. Waveform would be the shapes visually represented on a spectrograph or oscilloscope.

The harmonics can be described in a series of frequencies, however that does not change the fundamental frequency of the tone. In fact, the harmonics are completely dependent upon this fundamental frequency of the sound being generated. Thusly, their "order", as usually they are ordered odd or evenly as multiples of the fundamental.

And while you are correct that a piano and guitar sound different and much of this is due to harmonics, it is also because of the completely different striking mechanism as well as materials, size(all affect the series of harmonics)

The difference in two very similar instruments with a change in scale of .75" inches will be much more subtle than that of a 9 foot Steinway piano to a 25.5" Fender guitar. Though I don't deny something will change. To the degree that pickups need to be designed differently for each scale length, I think not quite as high on the list as woods used, bridge material and design etc.

(This message was last edited by Achase4u at 12:22 AM, Jan 8th, 2019)

mr.gibson

Hamilton, Canada

Music is your only friend....
Jan 7th, 2019 10:54 PM   Edit   Profile  

I know that timbre is the stuff that the bodies and necks are made from.

pcalu

usa Thumb area Mi

Jan 8th, 2019 03:28 PM   Edit   Profile  

Achase4u

We can't do this again :) :)

People are going to think we just like to argue with each other Like Adams and Jefferson.

let's agree to disagree on this one

Enjoy the day my friend, till the next cooky small trivial debate. :) :)





Achase4u
Contributing Member
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U.S. - Virginia

Jan 8th, 2019 04:13 PM   Edit   Profile  

"We can't do this again :) :)"

Of course we can! People love us. It is the heart and soul of forumology.

It is like Frazier and Ali.

Or as you say, Adams and Jefferson.

This is the stuff of legend.

This, is the internet.

Ok maybe not. Ah well. It was fun while it lasted. Toodles :-D

(This message was last edited by Achase4u at 07:20 PM, Jan 8th, 2019)

Nawlins Dawg
Contributing Member
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N.O.,LA USA

There's no place like tone
Jan 18th, 2019 02:29 PM   Edit   Profile  

All I can say is that there’s a lot of hoodoo snake oil being humped in the aftermarket pickup market

Caveat emptor

Previous 20 Messages  

FDP Forum / The 'Pup' Tent / PAF for Tele




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