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FDP Forum / Miscellaneous and Non-Fender Topics / Why doesnt tremolo sound the same in pedal form as in an amp?

Achase4u
Contributing Member
********

U.S. - Virginia

Oct 23rd, 2018 09:57 PM   Edit   Profile  

So I have used trem pedals (Strymon Flint here currently) as well as had trem on a couple amps (silver face Vibro Champ and DRRI)

I have very unscientifically come to the conclusion that no matter how good a pedal, it can't match the amp trem(aka Fender Vibrato) because it's in front of the amp circuit altogether.

Disclaimer: I have no idea where the trem is in most amp circuits, nor do I have knowledge of how these things work etc.

However, if it comes after an amps power and preamps, it will sound different, like putting a compressor before or after an EQ in a recording chain etc.

Allow me to hypothesize. I'm playing a DRRI on 5 or so with some breakup. I kick in the trem circuit. It's creating a change in amplitude/volume somewhere in the circuit going from normal 100% down to some number less than that, and back again.

Does this take place in the amp circuit in an area that won't affect how my signal is driving the amp?

Because in terms of a pedal in front of the amp, it's going to decrease amplitude before all the amps circuitry thus changing how the amp is driven with each increase and decrease of signal.

Anyway, as nice as the Flint is, it doesn't sound as lush and 3d as the DRRI vibrato did. Just curious as to why.

Maybe it's just because one achieves this with tubes and the other is digital.

BrentD
Contributing Member
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Michigan

Poured Volume
Oct 23rd, 2018 10:12 PM   Edit   Profile  

I think it's because of its place in an amp circuit. Just like power tube and preamp tube distortion sounds different, I think trem works similarly.

Mick Reid
Contributing Member
*****

Australia

American-made in Oz!!
Oct 23rd, 2018 11:17 PM   Edit   Profile  

I may be demonstrating my ignorance here (not uncommonly)... would running the tremolo pedal through the fx loop make a difference? Presuming you have one.

I know I hear a significant difference running my delays through the loop instead of the front end.

I have an anlogue tremolo that gets the job done as I don't use it except for a couple songs. Probably wouldn't stand up to a tube amp tremolo though.

I've always run that into the loop with my chorus, delays and reverb. Don't think I've ever run straight in, but that's mainly due to e way my board is set up. (Time based/Mod into FX loop / Comp, OD, Boost into front)


Leftee
Contributing Member
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VA

Oct 24th, 2018 07:22 AM   Edit   Profile  

I came to this same conclusion when I got this Fender Bronco ('72) recently.

littleuch
Contributing Member
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Ocala, Florida

I do my own stunts, but never on purpose
Oct 24th, 2018 08:05 AM   Edit   Profile  

I had a Strymon Flint for a while. I think it came closer than any other pedal I have tried. The reverb was good too but I just could not control any reverb on a pedal board without it getting wonky at some point. Running that pedal though an effects loop would probably have been the ticket, if I had an effects loop.

capnhiho
Contributing Member
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*****

Bakersfield, CA

I'm not a guitarist . . .
Oct 24th, 2018 09:02 AM   Edit   Profile  

Count me in the effects loop camp too.
I run reverb, delay, chorus and tremolo pedals through my loop. Definitely sounds better than straight into my Tweaker or Roland BC-60.

Of course the DRRI and Vibro Champ mentioned by the OP aren’t thusly equipped. YMMV

Leftee
Contributing Member
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VA

Oct 24th, 2018 09:05 AM   Edit   Profile  

So... what order in the loop?

Achase4u
Contributing Member
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U.S. - Virginia

Oct 24th, 2018 10:11 AM   Edit   Profile  

A loop can certainly be added but... I have no idea what I'm doing.

LeftyMeister
Contributing Member
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Buckeye Country, USA

Tone is in the lingers
Oct 24th, 2018 10:18 AM   Edit   Profile  

I have a Bluebird Tremolo and it's a very good reasonable facsimile through the FX loop of my VHT. I've A/B it next to a bandmate's Tremolux and the difference was not obvious unless one was being fastidious, especially through a house PA.

Achase4u
Contributing Member
********

U.S. - Virginia

Oct 24th, 2018 10:31 AM   Edit   Profile  

Through the house PA I can believe it. However most of what I do is recording and I find it easier to tell in that situation.

Curious about the BB trem, but confident the Flint is one of the best out there.

reverendrob
FDP Data Goon
Moderator

We all want

our time in hell
Oct 24th, 2018 10:42 AM   Edit   Profile  

It does matter more on the 6V6 amps than on the 6L6 or solid state stuff IME.

You're pushing the power section hard with those choppy peaks at times, and there's no headroom to give on the 6V6.

Achase4u
Contributing Member
********

U.S. - Virginia

Oct 24th, 2018 10:59 AM   Edit   Profile  

So can you tell me how its pushing it? I thought a trem traditionally only attenuated. Or are you saying its the time interval from trough to peak that creates the issue?

LeftyMeister
Contributing Member
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Buckeye Country, USA

Tone is in the lingers
Oct 24th, 2018 11:05 AM   Edit   Profile  

"Curious about the BB trem, but confident the Flint is one of the best out there."

It was a boutique pedal from a decade ago that's no longer available.

Cal-Woody

USA/California

Why do I keep fixing things that work?
Oct 24th, 2018 05:28 PM   Edit   Profile  

I have a Dan Electro Wasabi pedal for tremolo and it has two different settings on it. One setting does the amplitude modulation, which you can set it for soft or hard tremolo effect. It sounds very genuine but am running it through the effects loop with very convincing sound and feel. The other setting is more of a digital version and causes the sound to just have the flutter effect of the tremolo without any volume variation. So, it can get the tremolo feeling and you maintain more of your volume with it giving you the same feel and still have a convincing sound.
So with the only option of placing it into the front of your amp, I would use the digital side of the tremolo as not to impede your volume settings from your other effects.
I have the unit in my pedalboard and will repost the name of it after band practice tonight.
I really haven't thought of it as a problem because I use it in my effects loop and not in front of my amp.
Just good for thought. Woody

reverendrob
FDP Data Goon
Moderator

We all want

our time in hell
Oct 24th, 2018 10:12 PM   Edit   Profile  

You'll be turning the amp up to compensate for those drops, and the swell/burst will still have an impact on things.

Particularly on any low-end, where that energy will push those tubes into anger fast.

FDP Forum / Miscellaneous and Non-Fender Topics / Why doesnt tremolo sound the same in pedal form as in an amp?




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