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FDP Forum / The Chop Shop / Sight reading and learning the fretboard

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windmill
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Australia

older,better
Oct 13th, 2018 04:12 PM   Edit   Profile  

This weeks lesson in learning the fretboard is from Julian Lage.

Came across it in an article on the internet

He figured out that his trouble with trying to sightread music was that he didn't know the fretboard well enough to be able to immediately find the notes. (ie without taking his eyes of the sheet of music and looking at the fretboard)

He developed exercises to practice locating the notes that are widely spaced. Initially it was to find the same note everywhere on the fretboard.

So my problem with reading music is that I can sightread simple music played in the same position but as soon as I have to move my fretting hand I am unable to keep up, because I have too look to see where my hand is, the same problem Mr Lage had.

This has now become part of the warmup routine, a few minutes finding different notes with out looking.

It's funny how obvious the problem is and what the solution is when someone points it out ! :)

(This message was last edited by windmill at 06:17 PM, Oct 13th, 2018)

Achase4u
Contributing Member
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U.S. - Virginia

Oct 13th, 2018 07:06 PM   Edit   Profile  

Sight reading is such a complex topic. It involved muscle memory, note recognition as well as aural skills.

Lee Ritenaur described a similar thing. Being able to pick a random note, and play it in as many places as you can on the fretboard in under a few seconds.

However, one thing is for sure. No matter what exercises you do, you must sight read every day consistently to get proficient.

I love sight reading factory for this. And yea, some people have more of a talent for sight reading, I get it. We can all get better, though.

Julian is one of my favorites on guitar. Absolutely love his stuff. Thanks for sharing.

ninworks
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Tennessee

Too Much GAS
Oct 15th, 2018 04:21 PM   Edit   Profile  

I can read but sight reading is a skill I do not have. I can read a lead sheet and do pretty well but notes on staves....nope. I learned to read music as a child playing piano but was never good at it. For me, recognizing single notes on a staff is not hard for me. It's when they come in succession or are stacked on top of each other that screws me up.

I think if I were to go about learning to read better it would have nothing to do with the note names although I do know all of the notes on the fingerboard very well. I tend to think more in terms of intervals than actual note names. I think that if I were to really study, and get familiar with, recognizing note interval spacing, on staves, sight reading could come pretty easily for me.

Something else that throws me are notes above or below the staves. I can figure them out but looking at them quickly and determining what they are messes me up.

I can read rhythms just fine. It's reading the notes that throws me.

larryguitar19
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South Florida

larryguitar
Oct 16th, 2018 08:07 PM   Edit   Profile  

Like Nine I learned to read score sheets when I was very young. It works fairly naturally for piano but I never could translate that to guitar because of the nonlinear layout.

I think in terms of the CAGED system and partial chord shapes. So I see a spot on the neck and sorta kinda "hear the notes" or a pattern by looking at that spot.

The big thing that keeps me from the 'next level' is that I never really spent the time to work out all the transitional notes between spots.

I"m lazy that way.

gdw3

LA-la-land, CA

Insert clever comment here
Oct 22nd, 2018 12:06 PM   Edit   Profile  

Achase4u is correct about doing it consistently. It's like a muscle, in that you have to do it to maintain and get better.

About moving your fretting hand. The trick on that is you need to look ahead in the music. As you get better at reading and play more difficult pieces, it's imperative to do that. On any instrument.

Also, mark your chart! If I have some leap I need to do, say from fret 2 to 9, I'll put a big "IX" before that measure or note to warn myself. Same for other techniques or whatever you need to help yourself get ready for something coming up in the score. So instead of the lead singer telling you to "take it to the bridge", you've got a little shorthand note doing the same thing!

(This message was last edited by gdw3 at 02:07 PM, Oct 22nd, 2018)

Achase4u
Contributing Member
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U.S. - Virginia

Oct 22nd, 2018 12:57 PM   Edit   Profile  

"The trick on that is you need to look ahead in the music. As you get better at reading and play more difficult pieces, it's imperative to do that. On any instrument."

Absolutely. Howard Roberts said that one thing to Mitch Holder about sight reading. "Read ahead".

It's pretty hard to do. Takes patience and practice, but getting a bar or two ahead is really how to do it. I'm sweating just thinking about it.

As a guy who came up on marching snare, 99% of what I read was on a single line. Complex, very complex rhythms indeed. But no worrying about clusters or intervals. I was good at reading that stuff on sight, but guitar is a totally different world.

(This message was last edited by Achase4u at 03:00 PM, Oct 22nd, 2018)

Leftee
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VA

Oct 26th, 2018 08:14 AM   Edit   Profile  

I’ve seen eveidence (anecdotal) that those who are good at math are also better sight-readers.

Anyone else have any thoughts on that?

Peegoo
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Satan gave me

a taco
Oct 26th, 2018 08:58 AM   Edit   Profile  

My math skills are kindergarten level.

And I cannot sight read in real time.


So, yeah!

Achase4u
Contributing Member
********

U.S. - Virginia

Oct 26th, 2018 10:46 AM   Edit   Profile  

I've heard the whole math and music connection before. Could be the same part of the brain for all I know.

I am not so great at math.

I have to really work at sight reading. Some material I can sight read. 6 note chords like a dom7th b9 #11 over the 5th, it'll be a few minutes.

Peegoo
Contributing Member
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Satan gave me

a taco
Oct 26th, 2018 11:19 AM   Edit   Profile  

SIX note chords?

Let me see your fretting hand!

Achase4u
Contributing Member
********

U.S. - Virginia

Oct 26th, 2018 01:02 PM   Edit   Profile  

Dude. My fretting hand brings all the ladies to the yard and they're like, it's not as good as Geno's, and damn dude, you need Beano, I can teach you but...


you probably already know the chords I know...

Peegoo
Contributing Member
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Satan gave me

a taco
Oct 26th, 2018 01:29 PM   Edit   Profile  

Har! Funny!

Achase4u
Contributing Member
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U.S. - Virginia

Oct 26th, 2018 08:59 PM   Edit   Profile  

Let's get to work.

Sightreadingfactory

windmill
Contributing Member
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Australia

older,better
Oct 27th, 2018 04:27 PM   Edit   Profile  

That is a nice looking site

Thanks for posting the link.

Achase4u
Contributing Member
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U.S. - Virginia

Oct 27th, 2018 10:56 PM   Edit   Profile  

Enjoy it!

A goal to keep in mind is to 1) never stop no matter what happens during the exercise, and 2) Aim for 60-80% correct notes per sight reading exercise.

This makes a lot of sense to me. It was explained in this video.

Under 60% and the material is either too challenging or your metronome is set too fast. Above 80% and the material isn't challenging or your metronome is set too slow.

Sight Reading Guitar

windmill
Contributing Member
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Australia

older,better
Oct 28th, 2018 07:08 AM   Edit   Profile  

But, but, but I wanna do that too !

as well rock, jazz and blues on bass as well as guitar.

Now you tell there is whole world of classical guitar information out there as well.

I think I will cut down on sleeping to give myself a chance of doing it all.

Thanks for posting that link as well.

The 60/80% limits are a good guide. You don't have to get everything perfect but knowing what the lower limit you should reach is valuable.

:)

(This message was last edited by windmill at 05:26 PM, Oct 28th, 2018)

BbendFender
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American Patriot

About as ordinary as you can get.
Oct 29th, 2018 04:22 PM   Edit   Profile  

"My math skills are kindergarten level."

A career Air Force pilot! I'll bet your math skills are better than kindergarten level. Probably 5th grade at least!

windmill
Contributing Member
**********
********

Australia

older,better
Oct 31st, 2018 05:12 AM   Edit   Profile  

Thanks Achase4u

Have signed up for a year with the Sightreading Factory.

Probably somewhere between level 2 and 3 but I am
starting on Level 1, Key of C, 4/4 time, 8 bars at 80 bpm

Playing each piece in 2 positions on the fretboard.

My initial goal is to play the pieces right through without stopping regardless of mistakes.

Over the years I have always stopped when I made a mistake when learning any tune.

It is a habit I intend to break using the SRF and your 60/80 rule.

Thanks again :)

(This message was last edited by windmill at 07:14 AM, Oct 31st, 2018)

Achase4u
Contributing Member
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U.S. - Virginia

Oct 31st, 2018 10:50 AM   Edit   Profile  

I love SRF!

That's the way!

What I like to do is set the timer for 60 seconds in SRF, and put on disappearing bars. So like real world, you may have a minute to look at the part, find the tough spots to work out at least a position, and then it starts. Can't go back because the bars disappear.

Kind of a fun game. Until it's sight reading 7/8 or something.

windmill
Contributing Member
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Australia

older,better
Nov 8th, 2018 04:29 AM   Edit   Profile  

So yesterday I am on SightReading Factory and on level 1, pretty happy with the way I am going, and decide try out the random key signatures button

First one up: C#

Today I try again

First one up: Cb

yep I'm learning stuff

:)

(This message was last edited by windmill at 07:35 AM, Nov 8th, 2018)

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FDP Forum / The Chop Shop / Sight reading and learning the fretboard




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