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FDP Forum / Moe's Tavern (_8^(I) / The Other Side of Reverse Mortgages, etc.

Previous 20 Messages  
BlondeStrat
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Las Vegas NV

Can't complain but sometimes I still do
Jul 10th, 2018 12:05 PM   Edit   Profile  

I rereading the initial post along with some of the additional post I am understanding with more clarity. I think I let the word "spent" sway my interpretation a bit too much. Sorry about that. ;)

By the time my parents had both died there was absolutely nothing there to fight about ... I have to admit though there was a bit of knuckle head activity in the final years before my mother passed in 2009.

On second thought there was some discussion regarding which particular coffin might be most appropriate. ;)

(This message was last edited by BlondeStrat at 02:14 PM, Jul 10th, 2018)

Chris Greene
FDP Host

Idaho, USA

I miss Kelbo's
Jul 10th, 2018 12:07 PM   Edit   Profile  

Generally good advice from mfitz. I like using living trusts but nothing replaces meeting with a CPA and estate planning lawyer.

As to reverse mortgages, I know almost nothing about them but it seems like one of the only financial tools to homeowners who didn't prepare for retirement.

mfitz804
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Staten Island, NY

Our resident rational liberal
Jul 10th, 2018 12:34 PM   Edit   Profile  

"Generally good advice from mfitz. I like using living trusts but nothing replaces meeting with a CPA and estate planning lawyer."

Very true. Any advice on the topic not based on your specific situation is by its nature, general advice. These things are very fact specific.

Professionals will know more than you do. I went to law school and have practiced in a different field for 16 years with only minor forays into Estate planning, and I can say for certain, I know only the basics.

"As to reverse mortgages, I know almost nothing about them but it seems like one of the only financial tools to homeowners who didn't prepare for retirement."

This is very true as well. I have seen them more in the cases of older women who got divorced later in life and "got the house" but little else. often times its been someone who expected their husband to take care of them forever and to plan accordingly, only to find out later that he wouldn't and he didn't. Now they own a home, but have no retirement fund, no job, and either no skills and/or no desire to go to work at that age.

It's not the best thing to happen, but surely not the worst. At least they had the equity in the house.

Chris Greene
FDP Host

Idaho, USA

I miss Kelbo's
Jul 10th, 2018 12:49 PM   Edit   Profile  

OK, *now* can we turn this into a gun thread?

;o)


5Strats
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Edmond/OKC

GospelBilly!
Jul 10th, 2018 12:58 PM   Edit   Profile  

Note - Even with a will and trust and no issues, the probate process takes about 12-months to complete.

Taildragger - I don't think probate process cannot be avoided, at least in most states. My father had everything set up through an estate attorney. Maybe Pennsylvania's estate laws are unique but I doubt it. Without a will, the estate is distributed via intestate succession.

Slacker - Sorry to hear about your tough period.

Mo Problems - I was starting to recover from losing my dad and dealing with everything myself (with my wife's help), but 4 weeks ago we learned that our dog has inoperable liver cancer. She's on chemo now and has been doing well, but this hit us like a truck because we love our dog so much (we don't have children).

mfitz804
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Staten Island, NY

Our resident rational liberal
Jul 10th, 2018 01:15 PM   Edit   Profile  

"OK, *now* can we turn this into a gun thread?"

A recent Estate I probated had firearms involved. The deceased's wife of 20 years had to pick them up from the house of the deceased's mistress of 25 years. Fortunately she had (or claimed to have) the requisite license required to possess/keep them.

I believe everyone left the meeting intact.

There you go. ;)

Chris Greene
FDP Host

Idaho, USA

I miss Kelbo's
Jul 10th, 2018 01:23 PM   Edit   Profile  

Well done! ;o)

5Strats, I was under the impression that probate is only required for anything not contained within a trust. In other words, if you transfer all your assets into a trust, no probate. If you forgot to add a bank account or other items that have value (antiques, art, your vehicles, etc.), those items would be subject to probate. But for most people, especially in states like California, the biggest asset in most people's estates is their home. In my mom's case (a CA resident), her largest assets are real estate which is held in her trust. No probate will be required for those assets but a couple bank accounts, personal effects, her vehicle are not held in trust so, if I outlive her, as successor trustee, I'll have to deal with California probate at some point.

At least that's what I recall from our California years.

mfitz804
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Staten Island, NY

Our resident rational liberal
Jul 10th, 2018 01:31 PM   Edit   Profile  

Anything that has a designated beneficiary (a trust, your retirement account, life insurance, etc.) does NOT need to be probated.

Anything that doesn't, does.

Simply stated, of course.

To be honest, anyone with half a brain in their head can probate a simple Estate (bank accounts, personal items, vehicles as you said) on their own, without an attorney. The Court filing (at least in NY) is a simply understood form, and the filing fee is based on the value of the Estate but capped at $1,250.

You just get approved by the Court, collect everything, sell what isn't liquid, and then divide it as it says in the Will. Simple.

If using an attorney, though, the fee is customarily a percentage based on the total value of the Estate. Thus, the advantage of taking things out of probate is a cost saving method. If, in theory, you did the probate yourself without a lawyer, the only difference would be the filing fee, which is negligible.

Aside from whatever tax benefit and Medicaid planning benefits you may otherwise get from utilizing the Trust, of course. That goes outside my area of expertise.

ECS-3
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USA / Virginia

Jul 11th, 2018 04:29 AM   Edit   Profile  

I"ll just throw this in for general knowledge.

In Virginia, if the net value of your estate is under $50,000 then you do not have to go thru probate. Instead, ownership is transferred via Small Estate Affidavits. Banks don't like this, but that's too bad because it's the law in Virginia. Nothing is filed at the courthouse. The Affidavits are filled out, signed, and notarized.

When my younger brother died, his house was underwater, so that was sufficient to cover all the rest of his positive assets. Of course we had to get an appraisal, etc.

5Strats
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Edmond/OKC

GospelBilly!
Jul 11th, 2018 05:38 AM   Edit   Profile  

mfitz804 - The law isn't the same in every state. I'm using a top rated estate attorney in Pennsylvania for my dad's estate.

Note - I practiced law for 30 years specializing in the federal regulation of various forms of energy. I did take Wills, Trusts & Estates at the American University Washington College of Law in D.C. (:oD

mfitz804
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Staten Island, NY

Our resident rational liberal
Jul 11th, 2018 05:53 AM   Edit   Profile  

“mfitz804 - The law isn't the same in every state. I'm using a top rated estate attorney in Pennsylvania for my dad's estate.”

Very true. I probably threw in an “at least in New York” somewhere in one of my posts. If not, I meant to.

Also, I’m not necessarily advocating that people go to probate without a lawyer. But it’s one of those areas of law where one could definitely represent themselves. In New York, IF it’s a basic, non-complicated Estate.

As I mentioned, the forms are very basic (and the court provides an even more basic set of instructions for its completion), and the rest is stuff you do in your everyday life (bank transactions, selling property, etc.)

(This message was last edited by mfitz804 at 07:56 AM, Jul 11th, 2018)

Gene from Tampa
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Tampa, FL

Press On Irregardless
Jul 11th, 2018 06:11 AM   Edit   Profile  

My Dad retired at 62 w/o really saving for retirement and had no pension. He lived off of social security ($1,200/month). That seemed like plenty to him when he retired but ...

1- He lived another 28 years and that $1,200 month quickly became insufficient to meet his bills.
2- He took out a reverse mortgage on his retirement condo. At the end he had spent 100% of the equity he had in it.
3- He maxed out a few credit cards and was paying the monthly minimum.

As executor of his will I was not surprised to see he was in effect $130k in debt at the time of his passing. I was given 30 days by the reverse mortgage company to pay off the reverse mortgage debt in full (over $100k) after which they foreclosed on it.

The lesson to be learned here is the fact that we all need to plan to live to at least 90. And social security alone is not a retirement plan.

5Strats
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Edmond/OKC

GospelBilly!
Jul 11th, 2018 06:20 AM   Edit   Profile  

"The lesson to be learned here is the fact that we all need to plan to live to at least 90. And social security alone is not a retirement plan."

That's definitely true. My father live to 89, but he saved a good amount of money (or got it via the reverse mortgage) and had some investments. Thank God he didn't leave a ton of debt for me (the executor) to deal with.

tiller2
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Washington DC

Jul 11th, 2018 06:49 AM   Edit   Profile  

"Note - I practiced law for 30 years specializing in the federal regulation of various forms of energy. I did take Wills, Trusts & Estates at the American University Washington College of Law in D.C."

My wife went to AU Law, too. She's been in environmental law for 25 years or so...

Ragtop
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The older the violin

the sweeter the music.
Jul 11th, 2018 07:37 AM   Edit   Profile  

Per CG's request:

My in-laws don't have much, and are in poor health. My FIL has an old lever-action 30-06 Winchester that, I'll admit, I covet. I've maintained it and his other firearms for him over the years and sold many of them for him.

Anyway, I can see that his brother wants the rifle too. Not sure how hard I'll fight for it, as I really like his brother and he likes me.

I guess we'll see how it plays out when that day comes.

009
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USA

Jul 11th, 2018 07:39 AM   Edit   Profile  

BTW, this is a handy little book regarding probate avoidance, and it includes (appendix) a state-specific summary of which avoidance procedures are applicable/not applicable to a particular state.

The other two books on the linked web page are useful.

Nolo book: "8 ways to avoid probate"

mfitz804
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Staten Island, NY

Our resident rational liberal
Jul 11th, 2018 07:42 AM   Edit   Profile  

“Thank God he didn't leave a ton of debt for me (the executor) to deal with.“

If there’s no money, the debts are irrelevant. The Executor isn’t responsible for them, the Estate is. If there are assets, then yes, you have to negotiate with and pay creditors. Which, of course, reduces the assets that the legatees will get, but otherwise it’s usually just a couple phone calls.

mfitz804
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Staten Island, NY

Our resident rational liberal
Jul 11th, 2018 07:46 AM   Edit   Profile  

“BTW, this is a handy little book regarding probate avoidance”

As noted in the description, and as I overlooked earlier, avoiding probate certainly saves time. New York requires that assets be held seven months following appointment of a fiduciary to allow creditors to come forward. Taking assets out of probate eliminates this waiting time, and also eliminates the asset from being exposed to creditors claims, as it is not part of the Estate.

5Strats
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Edmond/OKC

GospelBilly!
Jul 11th, 2018 08:13 AM   Edit   Profile  

tiller2 - Very cool about your wife. AU WCL is an excellent law school. I didn't realize it was all that good until I kept running into WCL grads at top law firms during my career.

ps - I didn't start my law career until age 32 (I was a pro musician and a paralegal before then). I retired early last year and am back to being a pro musician. Thank God I don't need to make any real money off music (I operate in the red)! (:oD

Mikeyguitar
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PA - USA

THAT...IS...RIGHT!
Jul 11th, 2018 08:36 AM   Edit   Profile  

"You have to keep "climbing out of the well," even though you know you'll be back at the bottom sooner or later."



Just a helpful (I hope) comment regarding this:
Remember that when you're in the well, you'll be back out sooner or later, too.
I don't mean to over-simplify your problem - just giving a different perspective that I hope might be helpful...if just a little.

Previous 20 Messages  

FDP Forum / Moe's Tavern (_8^(I) / The Other Side of Reverse Mortgages, etc.




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