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FDP Forum / The 'Pup' Tent / Fender Pure Vintage 64s and Original Vintage Telecaster pickups

pcalu

usa Thumb area Mi

May 29th, 2018 07:20 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I'm strictly a Telecaster guy. So as expected I have a drawer full of boutiques pickups.

I shield my guitars correctly and use true single coils. IMO (Just me...) I think Compared to real single coils, Noiseless sound dull (I haven't come across a winder that has made that scientific leap yet) Yea IMO many say they are/do... but Nope I have found the missing link..

On a whim, I decided to try some Pure Vintage 64s. I am very impressed with the set. so decided to try some Original Vintage in another Telecaster.
also very impressed..

If you are into true single coils, save your money and go with these. These are as good as boutiques that cost twice as much. (Like I said I have a drawer full of boutiques and noiseless)

I'm trying to wrap my head around "How is that Fender sells these pups for a $100 and change.. and these rival boutiques. Both the PV64s and the OVs are lightly potted, have the correct winding formulas (the PV64s even have the staggard pole pieces.. lending to the Twang factor that "White Guard" pickups are known to have. Some don't like the staggard poles, say it affects the sound. In reality, it's about setting the correct pickup height. The OVs with A3s and the vintage winding has that classic 50's Black Guard snarl. Both pickup sets the neck pickup is balanced tonally to the bridge pickup (many Boutiques are not.. they make a generic one size fits all neck, they also tend to over pot trying to cut down on the treble..I hate that.. you get a dark muddy pup IMO.. )

Fender with 70+yrs in the business probably went to the vault, pulled out the prints for both pups and put them into production, thinking standard stuff. Done...

IMO save your money, no Boutique pup will sound better, just different. 70+yrs making Telecasters.. it shows in these two sets. (and I have some custom shop pickups i.e. a Telecaster with some Texas Specials.. those two sets are just as good.. just different in tonality..

(This message was last edited by pcalu at 09:27 PM, May 29th, 2018)

Achase4u

U.S. - Virginia

May 29th, 2018 09:34 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"How is that Fender sells these pups for a $100 and change.. and these rival boutiques."

Because they source their parts by the tens of thousands from China for a penny a part. Same with wire, though possibly domestic, they buy 100s of lbs of wire to get very low prices.
I agree, there are no noiseless pickups that do the real single coil sound, but that is natural, if you ask me. Oranges don't taste like apples and vice versa. They are just different things altogether. Though there are great noiseless designs that don't try to be anything else and sound great on their own.


Most boutique winders are too small to wield the buying power for those kinds of yields, and many don't go to China for their parts.

They are also machine wound. Operator costs are much less when a machine with 6 plates on it can wind 6 pickups at a time.

It's the law of diminishing returns. I've played amazing custom shop guitars from Fender that still weren't worth the extra thousands versus a standard model. Microphones are another example. You can get great sounds with a microphone under $1000 now. However, I still say the Neumann u67 is probably better. Though how much? It's $5999.00

The higher priced boutique pickups are many times made by one person who also does the customer service, shipping/receiving, repairs/warranty work, ALL the emails and phone calls(this by itself is a full time job)marketing, website etc who is also probably hand winding pickups as Fender did in the 50s and pre 65.

They also many times use more accurate parts that cost much more to make now.

"Fender with 70+yrs in the business probably went to the vault, pulled out the prints for both pups and put them into production, thinking standard stuff. Done... "

Those old Race & Olmsted die's are probably long gone, but the drawings may still exist. With the exception of where they get their mags and wire(which is hugely important) and their machine winding techniques, I would tend to agree with you here.

It is true, they do sound different. The entire thing is subjective. Some would say compared to the originals, the boutique's get much closer in some respects. Others think the modern machine wound recreations at Fender sound better. To each his own. Saving money is great. However, if you look at this link below, you will see what Fender charges for a hand wound set of pickups made the way they used to make them(they still use overseas parts, though)

"they also tend to over pot trying to cut down on the treble..I hate that.. you get a dark muddy pup IMO"

I've yet to hear of anyone trying to cut down on the treble of a Tele neck pickup. The design itself limits the treble when compared to the neck of a strat pickup. I've only heard of makers doing the opposite and trying to make them more open sounding with longer magnets and bigger wire, different cover materials or no cover at all.

Potting affects the micro-phonic aspect of a pickup and it's tendencies to feedback. There is a subtle gain in responsiveness with light potting. However EQ should not be affected. Inductance and resistance would be more indicative of these characteristics.

Truthfully, the boutique makers tend to use the proper gauge brass neck covers which DO make for a darker neck pickup. This is vintage correct. Even the Fender reissues use nickel silver material covers which open the sound up somewhat, especially if they are a thinner gauge sheet metal.

Let's not disparage the boutique makers who are doing their level best to make pickups so accurate to the originals that they lose sleep over it. Fender's lack of drive to do the same has given them a market opportunity that they *should* take.

I will say I am happy that you are happy with your purchase. That is excellent.

Josefina hand wound Strat set $499

(This message was last edited by Achase4u at 11:40 PM, May 29th, 2018)

pcalu

usa Thumb area Mi

May 30th, 2018 04:51 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I do believe potting does more than affect the micro-phonic aspect of a pickup and it's tendencies to feedback.

Actually, the base plate (if we're talking Tele pups) has more to do with feedback than any potting does.. and yes the more you pot a pup the darker it becomes. With boutique builders, that's their chief trick to making a vintage pup. Like I said, it cuts the high end and makes the pup sound as if its aged just like a vintage pup would perform. (not my first rodeo in pickup land my friend...)


Disclosure: I am a Materials Manager for a Tier 1 auto supplier. So Achase Let me explain to you that 43AWG is 43AWG. Unless your sourcing it from suspect suppliers or a low-quality supplier then 99% of the time 43AWG or 42AWG is indeed the real thing. Does Fender buy low quality sourced parts?, yes we often see Chinese pot metal on Fender low-end products.

Being part of their AFT market I do not believe the PV64s or the OVs have low-quality parts within.

For the record: Many corporations go to China because China is now the World leader in manufacturing raw materials and electronics, and Not because the sourced parts are cheap. Yes, you can source cheap parts in China, but there is a difference.


You should know... Considering most of the wire suppliers are indeed now located in China, 99% of your Boutique builders are also sourcing their raw materials (wire, magnets, maybe bobbins too for all we know) from the same sources Fender is. (Or they are using a middleman who buys from the very company that Fender uses)


I have to ask "What pray tell are accurate parts?" 43awg is still 43awg hasn't changed, Cloth wire is still sold aplenty and A3 and A5 pole pieces are available at any dimension. (and still A5 and A3 no different that in 1955. Bobbins? even vintage spec'ed vulcanized bobbins can be had real cheap, In fact, a simple google search yielded vintage spec'ed bobbins for $21 (pole pieces included)

By accurate parts are we talking vintage correct wax for the potting, or scatterwound? Then if so, then yes I agree (still their is no measurable proof that hand scatterwound pickups sound any better than machined wound.


My Question "How is Fender selling... " was me being facetious... Of course, I know how.. I was obviously asking "Why go with a boutique builder for $200 vintage spec'ed pups when these are on the market? The post was about my opinion that these pups are just as good as overpriced boutiques ( Ok I'll note not all boutique builders are overpriced.)


With both the PV64 and the OV.. these are well known established specs, so... with well known established pickup specs and the same materials used i.e 43awg and 42awg & A5 and A3 magnets.. that the Boutique winder is using.. IMO....

"Yes let's indeed disparage overpriced Boutique manufactures for overcharging or let's do the opposite if it pleases your fancy..... Let's give accolades to Fender for offering a more than a decent set of pups for the money.

(This message was last edited by pcalu at 06:59 PM, May 30th, 2018)

Leftee
Contributing Member
**********
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VA

May 30th, 2018 05:08 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I prefer the boutique builder. I get exactly what I want. Right down to the pole stagger - or lack there-of.

And one participant in this thread is my builder of choice.

Achase4u

U.S. - Virginia

May 30th, 2018 08:43 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"(not my first rodeo in pickup land my friend...) "

With some of your assertions, you could have fooled me.

When you have the time, scope a pickup at various levels of potting and plot the frequency curves for me to substantiate that claim and I'll agree. Until then, I'll stick with what has actually been proven to affect the plot of a pickup.

Not mine either. I've been studying the vintage ones and building for 10 years now.

"Disclosure: I am a Materials Manager for a Tier 1 auto supplier. So Achase Let me explain to you that 43AWG is 43AWG. Unless your sourcing it from suspect suppliers or a low-quality supplier then 99% of the time 43AWG or 42AWG is indeed the real thing. Does Fender buy low quality sourced parts?, yes we often see Chinese pot metal on Fender low-end products."

Cars? That's nice. If this were a discussion about car parts, I would certainly yield to your expertise. However it is not. There hasn't been a car part in the world that has been sourced(aside from perhaps capacitors in the radio etc) for their sonics. Part scrutiny for tone happens in no other industry but the pro audio and musical instrument world, of which I am a professional in both.


So pcalu let me explain to you that 43AWG is *not* just 43AWG.

For instance, is the wire min-nom or nom-max 43 AWG? What exact mix is the oleoresin insulation? Is it single insulated, or double insulated? All of these things affect the dielectric properties of the inductor and hence, sound. So no, 43AWG is not just 43 AWG, and as much as you wish to believe that(as it pertains to automobiles) it does not make it so.

"For the record: Many corporations go to China because China is now the World leader in manufacturing raw materials and electronics, and Not because the sourced parts are cheap. Yes, you can source cheap parts in China, but there is a difference."

Electronics are one thing. Alnico magnets and wire are another. There are perfectly good and even superious magnets and wire made in the USA. I've tested them myself. Trust me when I say, it is the price that drives manufacturers to Chinese parts. 1 cent to 30 cents a magnet in China and at least 1 dollar per rod magnet in the USA. Profit is king and makers using cheap parts rely on the unfortunate fact that most players have never played a fine vintage instrument with original USA manufactured parts. Just because you've never had filet mignon doesn't mean that sirloin is just as good.

"You should know... Considering most of the wire suppliers are indeed now located in China, 99% of your Boutique builders are also sourcing their raw materials (wire, magnets, maybe bobbins too for all we know) from the same sources Fender is. (Or they are using a middleman who buys from the very company that Fender uses) "

I do know, and in many cases what you are saying isn't true. Again, this is why the boutique market exists. They use different methods and materials than Fender currently does.

"43awg is still 43awg hasn't changed"

Empirically wrong. Samples have been sent to current wire labs to confirm that yes the wire was indeed different those years ago. It is only logical to assume so as so much has changed in the manufacturing industries since then. It would be silly to assume that things are still made even remotely the same as the 50s in any industry, really.

"A3 and A5 pole pieces are available at any dimension. (and still A5 and A3 no different that in 1955."

Again, empirically wrong. Myself and others have had vintage alnico samples examined by scanning electron microscope, combustion, magnetic field analysis. In fact, the magnets changed just about every year at Fender from their beginnings until now. Alnico 5 is not just alnico 5. There are many variations. It is a very involved process to pour alnico that is anisotropic. Temps, cooling time, magnetic field exposure and strength. I have had the privilege of talking with USA foundry CEO's who have shared their knowledge of how the materials both raw and finished have changed over the years.


Vulcanized fiber is the least important as it doesn't affect tone.

"By accurate parts are we talking vintage correct wax for the potting, or scatterwound? Then if so, then yes I agree (still their is no measurable proof that hand scatterwound pickups sound any better than machined wound."

There is certainly no proof anything sounds better than this or that, but you can measure the capacitance differences in different winding techniques. This is why transformer manufacturers use certain windings like Litz in their products.

"With both the PV64 and the OV.. these are well known established specs, so... with well known established pickup specs and the same materials used i.e 43awg and 42awg & A5 and A3 magnets.. that the Boutique winder is using.. IMO...."

This entire paragraph is based on the assumption that all the materials are the same which is baseless opinion.

Well established specs? Every pickup was different at Fender originally. They were all over the place. So the Fender OV and 64 are just numbers they decided to go with for a production model. They might not even be averages of actual measurements.

I'm sure they are fine pickups. There is still no reason to delegitimize boutique builders. If you like driving a Toyota Celica, great. Then don't spend the money on a Rolls Royce. But don't pretend they are the same thing.

"Yes let's indeed disparage overpriced Boutique manufactures for overcharging or let's do the opposite if it pleases your fancy..... Let's give accolades to Fender for offering a more than a decent set of pups for the money."

Again, overcharging based on what? Have you seen the price breakout for the boutique parts? Your opinion, again, baseless. Did you see the link for the $499 dollar Fender handwounds? That's more than twice your average boutique set of strat pickups.

As for the 64 set of pickups being under $100, yes that is a nice set of pickups I bet and for not a lot of cash. I hope they sell tons.

You are obviously out of your depth here, my friend. We all appreciate your opinion on the Fender pickups tickling your fancy, but you obviously have an axe to grind against boutique builders(perhaps you feel burned for the sets you have bought since you can hear no appreciable difference). There is no need to make dubious claims about the industry when you are obviously not privy to the data that actually proves otherwise.

All the best.

-

(This message was last edited by Achase4u at 11:25 PM, May 30th, 2018)

pcalu

usa Thumb area Mi

May 31st, 2018 06:32 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

OK I'll play....

"Myself and others have had vintage alnico samples examined by scanning electron microscope, combustion, magnetic field analysis"

Post up your measurable data please.. I'd want to see it. please cite sources.

I'll us cars since you went there... a 1982 Ferrari (the Magnum PI type) gets beat in a 1/2 mile by a 4 door 2016 Toyota Celica. What you want do convince people that is not possible because you're the classic car salesman.

Post the data that 43awg is different than what was made in 1950s and show me the data (better be measurable and controlled) that 43awg (your 43awg that you use )improves tone and performance please.

I'm waiting.. Hopefully what you provide is both professional and scientific and the source(s) can be validated.. Hopefully it discredits my knowledge that much of what Boutique winders do is nothing but mystic mumbo jumbo snake oil salesmanship

All the best and I await to be discredited



(This message was last edited by pcalu at 08:33 AM, May 31st, 2018)

pcalu

usa Thumb area Mi

May 31st, 2018 07:12 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

And by "sources" I mean some kind of trade journal, and not two Joe's in a basement who wind for a hobby..

If you provide that I'll more than take a back seat to what you got to say.. But if you don't have that (i.e scientific journal etc) , then I think a less authoritative approach and a less disparaging of Fender would be favorable..

reverendrob
FDP Data Goon
Moderator

We all want

our time in hell
May 31st, 2018 07:34 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Ye gods, I had to go into the pup forum.

Get civil, and fast.

Achase4u

U.S. - Virginia

May 31st, 2018 03:04 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Post up your measurable data please.. I'd want to see it. please cite sources."

No one who makes their living on the details will just turn over the tests that cost up to 1000 dollars on a forum for everyone to see. However, what I invite you to do is check out Nacho Banos "the Blackguard Book" in which he posts Alan Hamel's chemical and physical analysis of modern vs vintage alnico magnet examples. Being that it is an expensive book, it wouldn't be right for me to start posting it's contents up on the web. Yes the examples are similar, but there ARE differences in magnetism and composition. This at the very least confirms the possibility that they may sound different.

If you can find one, or one that is in PDF form, go to page 418 and 419. Material analysis is given and shows the differences in composition for modern and vintage examples with crude gauss reading differences as well.

This also doesn't account for raw material differences in purity which are also different now. Here is a small bit from my conversations with Ed Richardson, President and COO of Thomas & Skinner, a US magnet foundry operating in Indiana since 1901.

"Also, keep in mind that the way we melt metal is different than how we did it in the 1960’s and 70’s. We have gradually added techniques over the years to reduce the amount of contaminants. Also, our suppliers are providing a more consistent and pure grade of metal than they used to. All of these factors can come into play when trying to duplicate a metal that was cast decades ago."

I.e. they aren't the same.

"Post the data that 43awg is different than what was made in 1950s and show me the data (better be measurable and controlled) that 43awg (your 43awg that you use )improves tone and performance please."

Vintage plain enamel from a PAF was sent to Elektrisola for analysis. The copper core and insulation both differed. I won't post others hard fought and expensive data for the internet to see.

As far as tone and performance, I thought we both agreed this whole interpretation of tone was subjective anyway. I can no more prove via data that a pickup "performs" better than another any more than you can prove that "These are as good as boutiques that cost twice as much." when speaking of the current Fender pickups.

"much of what Boutique winders do is nothing but mystic mumbo jumbo snake oil salesmanship "

Here is the thing, you still make that claim yet you yourself have posted no data to support your position as well. Please post your data which substantiates the claim that alnico in the 50s and 60s is indeed exactly the same now.

These industries have gone through vast changes due to costs and regulations in the last 50 years.

You have every right to be skeptical. It is healthy to act accordingly. Though claiming to know that these parts are exactly the same an unchanged without evidence is beyond skepticism. So is calling someones work snake oil salesmanship and mystic mumbo jumbo.

So how about this. I will take reverendrob's advice to get civil(this post doesn't seem uncivil to me). I won't post data that allows some makers to pay their bills, you won't post data to the contrary - so let's just agree to disagree. It is subjective in the end anyway. Yes I took exception with some of your comments, but none that were positive about Fender's current product. They are affordable and I'm sure they sound good. Enjoy them. Check out the blackguard book when you can.

I will also apologize for any portion of a post that was not in accordance with the rules of good conduct on this forum.

All the best.


littleuch
Contributing Member
**********
*******

Florida

May 31st, 2018 05:58 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I'm curious if the OP thinks Cavalier pickups fall into the boutique/snake oil category. If so, why the change of heart from previous posts made giving them high praise. Not looking to engage in this debate that goes above my technical knowledge, just wondering if something turned you off to Rob Distefano's product.

pcalu

usa Thumb area Mi

May 31st, 2018 07:53 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

No... Cavalier's are great pups! And Rob doesn't charge $200 a set. Yet... and this is just my opinion only .. sorry Rob and Cavalier pickups.. The Fender PV64s and the OVs sound a little bit better. However, Rob will listen to want you to want and easily make a pup exactly like both of these.. for a fair price of usually $60 a pup.

Rob and Cavalier pickups are NOT what I'm talking about (or anyone else who offers a decent priced pup)

Also.. when I was talking Journals and measurable proof I was thinking along the lines of (not in a "Guide to wiring pickups" where 2 pages cited go totally against what every metallurgy journal and study has said for years.

Example:

https://www.copper.org/publications/newsletters/innovations/1997/12/wiremetallurgy.html

Pay close attention to were Journal is citing that after 1970 the production of copper wire improved greatly..(this includes purity) and that copper is much more pure than in the 50s.. Note this whole journal article is about the conductivity of copper.

We are in the end talking about magnets, correct?
better continuity in the wire means a better pickup, it's not the other way around. i.e. more impurities mean a better continuity/conductivity...a better pickup.

This means the copper wire in your current pups have a 99% probability (If not something low budget) of being a better grade than the pickup in that very expensive original Fender 50's strat or Tele! (I.e its a better pickup when it comes to doing what it was designed to do.)

It's the 1982 Ferrari vs the 4 door 2016 Toyota Celica analogy... Unless you have seen it, one would think "no way does a 2016 Celica beat a Ferrari in a 1/2 mile... yet it does.

People love telling us how vintage pups sound better (or i.e. the boutique guy who want us to believe his vintage pups at $200 are the exact copy or better because he uses vintage materials.. Really? he uses subpar copper and magnets (see below on the magnets) or is he power boasting to hawk his wears?

Point being made is "if a pickup sounds better it's not in the materials" it's in how the guy (or company) winds the pickup.

On China ... making low grade

Or https://www.epma.com/magnetic-materials

Please read where it says China is now the main source of all these products (referring to alnico and Ferrites magnets) Why? because they make the best for less. It's that simple.

Right about now you should be questioning Boutique speaker manufactures too lol (what powers a speaker?) They love to cite the same things Boutique winder do about thier materials .. lol

Last.. if you want to know about base metals and materials like copper and it's use in manufacturing get a copy of this

https://www.springer.com/materials/special+types/journal/12540

It pretty much debunks what high priced boutique winders are saying..or Boutique speaker manufactures.

WE MUSICIANS ARE SUCKERS (INCLUDING ME!) We love a good sales pitch!

Sorry guys I'm not trying to troll... If you think different than me.. well it's ok. It's a big world and we both can live in it and think the way we do.. right?

I'm done on this.. said my last. If anyone feels the need for a rebuttal...

The floor is yours (you have the last word)

Achase4u

U.S. - Virginia

May 31st, 2018 08:41 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Pay close attention to were Journal is citing that after 1970 the production of copper wire improved greatly..(this includes purity) and that copper is much more pure than in the 50s.. Note this whole journal article is about the conductivity of copper.

We are in the end talking about magnets, correct?
better continuity in the wire means a better pickup, it's not the other way around. i.e. more impurities mean a better continuity/conductivity...a better pickup.

This means the copper wire in your current pups have a 99% probability (If not something low budget) of being a better grade than the pickup in that very expensive original Fender 50's strat or Tele! (I.e its a better pickup when it comes to doing what it was designed to do.)"

"People love telling us how vintage pups sound better (or i.e. the boutique guy who want us to believe his vintage pups at $200 are the exact copy or better because he uses vintage materials.. Really? he uses subpar copper and magnets (see below on the magnets) or is he power boasting to hawk his wears?

Point being made is "if a pickup sounds better it's not in the materials" it's in how the guy (or company) winds the pickup."


I am glad you posted this and as I am in total agreement with you here. My only point was that old ones were indeed different than now. Now, I still personally believe after trying over a dozen foundries both foreign and domestic that *some* overseas magnets are not good. There are many, many factories over there and some make amazing modern quality magnets, but many dont. There are ISO 9000 factories over there where you could eat off the floor. But not all.

So if you are speaking in terms of purity and conductance, then yes, most modern day pickups are indeed leagues above the old. The old ones many times had rough cast magnets that were shaped like a bony skeleton finger. I looked at a 57 strat pickup to rewind and the b pole was so thin in the middle from the casting that I couldn't believe it functioned.

We have actually reached a point in the conversation now that we can have a real discussion so let's get past that whole rigamarole now.

The fascinating thing we have now stumbled upon is that of efficiency in circuits and lack of distortion etc.

If indeed the most desirable attributes of any device for audio such as a pickup, microphone, microphone preamplifier, compressor, equalizer etc are maximum conductance, minimum phase destruction, minimum distortion and maximum replication of a signal, then no one would make a piece of audio equipment with a transformer or tube in it. There would be no tube guitar amps.

Neumann brought back the famous u67, one of the most used studio mics of all time, back into production this year. It's a gritty, tubey, compressed and colored microphone circuit that is no where near as able to replicate a sound as a modern condenser. You think $200 for a set of pickups vs $90 is bad? Neumann sells the u67 for $5999 a mic. They sold out before they even could get the new stock to suppliers. Why? Because people love what it does to the sound. Not the fact that it captures sound with perfectly flat phase coherence, flat EQ response, maximum dynamics and low noise floor. Because it does none of those things. Not even as well as a $300 dollar Rode NT1a budget mic. And a microphone is much more easily tested for all the aforementioned graphs and characteristics, so the plots are readily available to compare.

Most pro studios and hobby studios alike across the world have compressors, preamps, consoles and mics with both tubes and iron in them. Things that will never allow for a linear response. Things that cause saturation and distortion of a signal. And they still dominate the majority of equipment lockers in studios everywhere. They all distort the sound in ways that are favorable to many people.

Some studios still go to great lengths to operate completely analog. They pay hundreds of dollars for one reel of 2" tape. They do daily maintenance on tape machines. It's a PITA. But there is a difference in how this old medium sounds. It's also measureable in it's phase, distortion and EQ response among other things. On paper, digital should stomp the bajeezis out of tape. It has far more linear response in every aspect.

The same applies to the pickup world. Older parts have inefficiencies that change the sound in a way that many people like very much. It's partly because they simply existed first and that is the sound we came to know. Some people prefer a much more linear response hifi pickup like Bardens or a modern material Fender type pickup.

You are right. Parts now are much more pure and make a "better" pickup on paper when talking about consistency, linear response, distortion and reproduction of a signal. That however means that modern made pickups are different to a degree than the pickups of old. While very similar, some people have come to prefer the sound of the old. What's wrong with that?

The fact is, there is nothing wrong with preferring one over the other.

You are also correct. China is indeed the "main" supplier and maker of alnico by far. It doesn't mean they are the only. In fact, the department of defense still uses the three main USA foundries. Permanent mag co, Arnold Magnetics and Thomas and Skinner. Many pro audio companies do as well.

China makes most of the alnico, yes. Probably even 99% or something like that.

Yes, it's a big enough world for us all to think as we like.

Some people like the sound of old gear, some people like the sound of new. Both are just fine.

Some people like vanilla, some people like chocolate. I honestly like both.

No rebuttal here. Just another perspective.

All the best to you. Enjoy playing your guitars!


FDP Forum / The 'Pup' Tent / Fender Pure Vintage 64s and Original Vintage Telecaster pickups




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