FDP Home Page / FDP Forum / FAQ's

The FDP is made possible by the following companies and individual members like you.
Please use the links below to show them we value their sponsorship.

Apex Tube Matching

Sweetwater

MOD KITS DIY

Yellowjackets Tube Converters

WD Music

Guitar Center

Jensen Loudspeakers

Advertise here

Musician's Friend

Antique Electronics Supply

Amplified Parts


* God bless America and our men and women in uniform *

* Illegitimi non carborundum! *

If you benefit and learn from the FDP and enjoy our site, please help support us and become a Contributing Member or make a Donation today! The FDP counts on YOU to help keep the site going with an annual contribution. It's quick and easy with PayPal. Please do it TODAY!

Chris Greene, Host & Founder

LOST YOUR PASSWORD?

......................................................................

   
FDP Jam
Calendar
Find musicians
in your area!
  Search the Forums  

FDP Forum / Moe's Tavern (_8^(I) / Free health care but don't be late.

jhawkr
Contributing Member
**********
**********
*******

Wichita, KS USA

It's all gravy from here on...
Feb 28th, 2018 09:54 AM   Edit   Profile  

A 5 year old is dead because she wasn't on time for her appointment.

BBC report

mfitz804
Contributing Member
**********
**********
***

Staten Island, NY

Our resident rational liberal
Feb 28th, 2018 02:18 PM   Edit   Profile  

Horrible story.

Luckily near me, if you're 5 minutes late to a doctor's appointment, you're still about 55 minutes earlier than the time they will actually see you.

saturn
Contributing Member
**********

Back In The UK!

Swinging The Lead
Feb 28th, 2018 05:48 PM   Edit   Profile  

There are various ways of looking at this.

Variables include, different policies in different practices. Different resources available at point of provision.

Differing understanding of appropriate behaviour on presentation of symptoms in a known at risk child.

For me, the responsible adults ought to have been seeking emergency care in an emergency, not an 'emergency' appointment with a family doctor who could not be expected to provide more than a delayed referral to the appropriate emergency care, openly available by attendance at an ER.

No one wants to make political currency out of a situation like this, but I will shout louder than most to point out this was nothing intrinsically connected to the means by which our health care is administered on the ground, rather than how it is delivered according to individual practices.

There are always lessons to be learned, but overall I feel our system delivers.

mfitz804
Contributing Member
**********
**********
***

Staten Island, NY

Our resident rational liberal
Feb 28th, 2018 08:20 PM   Edit   Profile  

“For me, the responsible adults ought to have been seeking emergency care in an emergency, not an 'emergency' appointment with a family doctor who could not be expected to provide more than a delayed referral to the appropriate emergency care, openly available by attendance at an ER. ”

And, you can take that a step further and say that having been denied “emergency” treatment at the doctor’s office, common sense dictates not that you just go home, but that you go to an emergency room. After all, you already identified it was an emergency and no treatment was received.

Arguably, it was her parent’s mismanagement of the situation that was the root cause of the death, not the doctor’s office.

jhawkr
Contributing Member
**********
**********
*******

Wichita, KS USA

It's all gravy from here on...
Mar 1st, 2018 04:15 AM   Edit   Profile  

There's the hard-nosed technical observation and then there is a moral one. Saying the doctor nor the system have no culpability is just a CYA move. My guess is, a trip to the ER would have resulted in a "see your doctor" response at early stages of difficulty. This was asthma. No need for a child to die from constricted airways. At any rate, in GB it probably won't be possible to have the case heard in court so no recourse.

mfitz804
Contributing Member
**********
**********
***

Staten Island, NY

Our resident rational liberal
Mar 1st, 2018 05:23 AM   Edit   Profile  

“My guess is, a trip to the ER would have resulted in a "see your doctor" response at early stages of difficulty.”

If the theory is the child needed some emergent treatment, then the ER would have given it to her. If they wouldn’t, odds are the doctor’s office wouldn’t have either.

Not saying the doctor bears no responsibility, but it boggles my mind that a parent could think their child needed emergency treatment, go to the doctor, get no treatment, and then just go home. Here in the US, I’d have gone directly to the ER in that circumstance. I have in fact done it for myself.

Peegoo
Contributing Member
**********
**********
********

Lassoing

armadillos
Mar 1st, 2018 05:36 AM   Edit   Profile  

The parents are to blame, but the doctor will probably pay the price because it’s always “someone else’s fault.”

jhawkr
Contributing Member
**********
**********
*******

Wichita, KS USA

It's all gravy from here on...
Mar 1st, 2018 06:58 AM   Edit   Profile  

" Here in the US, I’d have gone directly to the ER in that circumstance. I have in fact done it for myself. "

I'd have gone to a minor emergency clinic myself. But I don't know if that option is available in GB. Also, in the USA, a child with asthma has likely been seen by a pediatrician or primary care physician many times by 5 years of age. Not sure how all that works over there. It doesn't seem to me from the story that the doctor/office thought there was any emergent situation although how they would know that is beyond me. And, if professionals didn't see an emergency situation, I'm not sure I would blame the parents for not knowing the gravity of the situation. Asthma at the non-emergency level is usually relieved by breathing treatments or inhalers, not a trip to the hospital.

mfitz804
Contributing Member
**********
**********
***

Staten Island, NY

Our resident rational liberal
Mar 1st, 2018 07:02 AM   Edit   Profile  

“And, if professionals didn't see an emergency situation, I'm not sure I would blame the parents for not knowing the gravity of the situation. Asthma at the non-emergency level is usually relieved by breathing treatments or inhalers, not a trip to the hospital.“

But the parents DID see an emergent situation and made an appointment for an emergency visit, which according to the article, was within minutes.

And, although like you said I don’t know what care is like in GB, I can tell you 100% that had the kid presented to an ER with symptoms of asthma that would have been relieved by bronchodilators/breathing treatments, she would have received such treatment. Having several friends with asthmatic children, I know this for a fact.

professor
Contributing Member
**********
**********
******

North Gnarlyington

Mar 1st, 2018 08:01 AM   Edit   Profile  

Overall, the UK has us beat

at healthcare outcomes

davywhizz
Contributing Member
*********

Redesdale UK

"Still Alive And Well"
Mar 1st, 2018 09:50 AM   Edit   Profile  

An emergency appointment at a family doctor(GP) only means you jump the queue rather than waiting a day or two for a normal appointment. It's for advice, reassurance, to access medication or other immediate, simple treatment or for referral on to specialists. This case is so sad, but not indicative of the system as a whole.

The National Health Service was a bold concept, originating as the UK came out of WW2, and has survived against the odds. The simple idea is that treatment is (mostly) free at the point of delivery, not allocated according to ability to pay. It`s hugely expensive, of course, and has its problems, but overall is pretty good, as the outcomes show. It may be that as a taxpayer I`ve paid in more than I`ll ever cost - I hope so - but that's a lottery and it's nice to know all that help is there if I need it.

Leftee
Contributing Member
**********
**********
*

VA

I say stuff
Mar 1st, 2018 10:17 AM   Edit   Profile  

Honestly, this story shouldn't wander into the political. It is not, by nature, a political issue.

Mom made a not-so-good choice. And I bet in hindsight she wishes she'd done things differently.

(This message was last edited by Leftee at 12:18 PM, Mar 1st, 2018)

FlyonNylon
Contributing Member
*

East Tennessee

Mar 1st, 2018 10:38 AM   Edit   Profile  

Terrible story.

The general practitioner who saw the patient and mother at the clinic and refused to see her bears some responsibility unless it is documented that she advised the mother to go directly to the ER.

It's entirely possible that the child was well appearing at that time though and didn't seem to need emergency treatment.

It's also quite possible that if the child had received a nebulized treatment in the office, a dose of steroids, and a refill of her MDI, she still would have gone home and died.

Usually someone in status asthmaticus is in severe respiratory distress for some time before the disease becomes fatal and obviously needs emergency medical care. This is typically not like a pulmonary embolus or heart attack that kills within minutes. It sounds like the child was in distress for sometime (mother admits to checking on her every 10-15 minutes) then at 2230 coughed up a mucous plug which resulted in complete airway obstruction, hypoxia and death.

All speculation.

The GP who saw the patient bears some responsibility but honestly the mother had ample time to seek emergency care and did not choose to do so. All dependent on the UK layman's standard as to the identification of an emergency medical condition.

This is why in the US patients are told to go to the ER when they call their PCP because their blood pressure is 160/90 or their foot hurts..

davywhizz
Contributing Member
*********

Redesdale UK

"Still Alive And Well"
Mar 1st, 2018 11:43 AM   Edit   Profile  

Conversely, one of the UK health service`s current problems is too many people turning up at an ER for non-urgent issues because they haven't registered with a local doctor or think they can`t wait for an appointment

FlyonNylon
Contributing Member
*

East Tennessee

Mar 1st, 2018 12:00 PM   Edit   Profile  

^ certainly a major issue in the US as well.

I like the sore throats and toothaches though, it's adds balance to the shift and a chart is a chart...

jhawkr
Contributing Member
**********
**********
*******

Wichita, KS USA

It's all gravy from here on...
Mar 1st, 2018 12:14 PM   Edit   Profile  

Sounds like the family practitioner was a bit overloaded as well. I can't imagine any of the doctors I know turning away anyone, especially a child. I and a grandchild or two have been "worked in" between appointments before. You have to wait until doc can see you but not turned away. We also have direct lines to some doctors and their nurses for emergency type contacts.

Hammond101
Contributing Member
**********
**

So. Cal. USA

Mar 1st, 2018 12:35 PM   Edit   Profile  

Very sad outcome. I don't know the medical system in the UK but would assume there is emergency medical treatment available 24/7. A trip to the closest ER would have most likely headed off this sad outcome. The "mum" is as much at fault as anyone here for not being aware of her child's situation.

FDP Forum / Moe's Tavern (_8^(I) / Free health care but don't be late.




Reply to this Topic
Display my email address             Lost your password?
Your Message:
Link Address (URL):
Link Title:




Moderators: Chris Greene  Iron Man  reverendrob  

FDP, LLC Privacy Policy: Your real name, username, and email
are held in confidence and not disclosed to any third parties, sold, or
used for anything other than FDP Forum registration unless you specifically authorize disclosure.

Furtkamp.com 
Internet Application Development

Copyright © 1999-2018 Fender Discussion Page, LLC   All Rights Reserved