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FDP Forum / Moe's Tavern (_8^(I) / Renewable energy - good. Electric vehicles - not so much.

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ECS-3
Contributing Member
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USA / Virginia

Feb 3rd, 2018 11:49 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"This is certainly only one more reason to stop all subsidies and tax breaks for such vehicles and technology and let the free market (and freedom of choice) be the guiding philosophy."

I certainly agree with this. In the US there currently is a $7,500 Federal Income Tax Credit on EVs, which is a HUGE credit. That's not a deduction, that's a full reduction of your taxes owed. Most people don't even pay $7,500 in Federal taxes a year, so you have the general public subsidizing wealthy folks.

Probably started out well meaning, like most things I guess.

There have been a number of theoretical (100% conversion of energy, 100% perfect battery charging, etc) looking at what it would take to replace all those gasoline service stations with an equivalent amount of electric charging capacity, including all the electric utility upgrades needed, and it's not pretty. Not to mention the cost.

Not gonna happen.

Taildragger
Contributing Member
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USA

an acquired taste some may never acquire
Feb 3rd, 2018 12:53 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I've long felt that EVs, at least to some degree, just move the source of the pollution from the tailpipe to the power plant, given that so much of our power generation is still oil fired.

Then there's the whole issue of the batteries. From an economic standpoint: how much does it cost to replace them when the original ones go bad? From an environmental standpoint: how much pollution is caused by their manufacture and disposal?

There's no doubt that internal combustion engines have and continue to cause problems, but EVs are not the panacea that some self-righteous crusaders would have us believe.



capnhiho
Contributing Member
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Bakersfield, CA

I'm not a guitarist . . .
Feb 3rd, 2018 01:00 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Unwarranted pushing of EVs has always been bad"

This can't be! We are Kalifornia!

How can this be bad if Governor Brown supports it?

K4
Contributing Member
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Being defenseless

does not make you more safe
Feb 3rd, 2018 01:06 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

They still have rolling blackouts in Ca, correct?

So the power grid is already at max capacity, now add 5 million cars plugged into it.

Can't see the forest for the trees.

RDR
Contributing Member
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I tried to think

but nothing happened!
Feb 3rd, 2018 02:06 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Need backyard fusion plants. Wonder how Lockheed-Martin is coming along with the scalable reactors?

RDR
Contributing Member
*********

I tried to think

but nothing happened!
Feb 3rd, 2018 02:06 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Need backyard fusion plants. Wonder how Lockheed-Martin is coming along with the scalable reactors?

Montrealer
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Montreal, Canada

Feb 3rd, 2018 02:30 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

“This risk would intensify were governments to allow themselves to be talked into subsidising EVs."

In Quebec, the government has a generous subsidy for these.

Also to consider:

The weight of the batteries in the vehicle

The cost of replacing the batteries when the time comes.



Taildragger
Contributing Member
**********

USA

an acquired taste some may never acquire
Feb 3rd, 2018 02:54 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"The weight of the batteries in the vehicle"

Which creates wear and tear on the roadways, yet all-electric vehicles pay no gas taxes, which is general where the revenues for road building/maintenance comes from.

ninworks
Contributing Member
******

Tennessee

Too Much GAS
Feb 3rd, 2018 04:24 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

+1

"From an environmental standpoint: how much pollution is caused by their manufacture and disposal?"

The talking heads don't want anyone to realize that. I think most of them either don't even think about it or decide not to for convenience's sake.

Gene from Tampa
Contributing Member
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Tampa, FL

Press On Irregardless
Feb 3rd, 2018 05:33 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Mini-nukes in the near future ... I read where India is working with Westinghouse on small units that can fit in the back of a pickup truck and are air cooled.

They can power small towns/villages. So the next big ticket item will be the eventual disposal of all these albeit small reactors when they wear out.

tahitijack
Contributing Member
****

San Clemente, CA

Happy Sunsets, tahitijack
Feb 3rd, 2018 10:10 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

All my friends driving EVs charge them via a roof mounted solar panels at home or at work.

My concern is how much electronic must have stuff are we adding to the demand on the grid. We went from one TV per home to one per room.

Mike DeTorrice
Contributing Member
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USA

Feb 3rd, 2018 10:53 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"All my friends driving EVs charge them via a roof mounted solar panels at home or at work......"

Besides the impact of making, installing maintaining and replacing expensive solar panels, such a system would be laughably impossible (as would the electric cars themselves) here in a usually overcast, bitterly cold and snow bound Chicago area.

jhawkr
Contributing Member
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Wichita, KS USA

It's all gravy from here on...
Feb 4th, 2018 04:21 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"My concern is how much electronic must have stuff are we adding to the demand on the grid. We went from one TV per home to one per room."

Put your concern to rest. All your flat screen TV's likely consume less energy than one old 25" CRT.

K4
Contributing Member
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Being defenseless

does not make you more safe
Feb 4th, 2018 10:58 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

" Mini-nukes in the near future ... I read where India is working with Westinghouse on small units that can fit in the back of a pickup truck and are air cooled. "

Wonderful, anyone want to guess how long it takes before some fool places a bomb on one of them?

Gato
Contributing Member
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Southern Calif

Feb 5th, 2018 06:12 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

These horseless carriages are never going to replace our horse and buggy transportation system. The Gummint is always trying to push their tekknowlgy onto us. They say that horseless carriages are the future ... that they'll be everwhere. Well, I say bull puckey!

Horses git us around just fine, and unlike them smoke belching, noisy "cars", their road apples can be picked up, used for fertilizer and as fuel for burning.

The very idea that folks will cotton to these oil dripping, clattering monstrosities is just ridiculous. I say, keep to the old ways. Do everything possible to make sure America stays in the 19th century. Horses were good enough for my grandpa and his grandpa. We don't need no cars.

Besides, cars will put buggy whip makers and blacksmiths out of business. Livery stables will close and glue factories will suffer.
Ain't it bad enough we got those infernal steam locomotives stinkin' up the air!

K4
Contributing Member
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Being defenseless

does not make you more safe
Feb 5th, 2018 09:12 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I'm not saying EV's will not have their place, but until we quadruple our electric generating capacity or make solar panels with higher efficiency rates, EV's are going to be a small percentage of vehicles. Unless .Gov steps in and mandates them.

The market will eventually find an alternative to "fossil" fuels and it will not be due to some beuracrat's pen.

Hammond101
Contributing Member
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So. Cal. USA

Feb 5th, 2018 09:33 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

In all the alternatives to fossil fuel full circle emissions must be considered. It's no different than the ethanol that is being forced upon us though a huge farm lobby. It's subsidized.

Fuel economy is lessened and the fuel circle emissions to process ethanol is equal to or greater than burning what used to be gasoline.

I understand the theory we will not have crude for ever. Improving mass transit in our major cities seems to be a much better solution. Mass transit, something the oil companies began buying up and shutting down in the 50s and 60s.

The nukes still scare me. Clean? I guess so until something goes wrong or until you have to dispose of the waste product. Fukushima, still belching radiation into the atmosphere and the pacific ocean.

MJB
Contributing Member
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Who's we sucka?

Smith, Wesson and me.
Feb 5th, 2018 09:47 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I recently bought an EV.

Like this one.

Leftee
Contributing Member
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VA

Life makes a man tired.
Feb 5th, 2018 09:56 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Nukes - NIMBY

MJB
Contributing Member
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Who's we sucka?

Smith, Wesson and me.
Feb 5th, 2018 10:16 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

New solar field recently built near my house in FL. The faint red arrow points to my house.

The site was an abandoned citrus grove when FPL bought it. It remains to be seen what effect, if any, this has on my electric bill.

Solar Field

Previous 20 Messages  

FDP Forum / Moe's Tavern (_8^(I) / Renewable energy - good. Electric vehicles - not so much.




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