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FDP Forum / Moe's Tavern (_8^(I) / Menendez Brothers...does the punishment fit the crime?

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K4
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Being defenseless

does not make you more safe
Dec 29th, 2017 07:55 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I agree with that 100%

If a person is not a danger to society, they should not be locked up.

mfitz804
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Staten Island, NY

Our resident rational liberal
Dec 29th, 2017 08:08 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

And based on the facts, I don't believe these guys are a danger to anyone.

I truly am conflicted on the sentence, which is why I thought I’d throw it out for FDP discussion. There’s arguments on both sides, obviously.

FlyonNylon
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East Tennessee

Dec 29th, 2017 08:10 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

They committed a premeditated double murder.

Events after the crime indicate the crime was committed for financial gain.

Regardless of the allegations of abuse, this type of person is not safe to be in society.

The parents are conveniently no longer able to defend themselves against these allegations, and it makes sense for the brothers to use this tactic, true or not. Even if true it's still premeditated murder by two adults.

Logic seems to indicate they committed a double murder for financial gain. Lock em up.

mfitz804
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Staten Island, NY

Our resident rational liberal
Dec 29th, 2017 08:37 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

There’s almost zero evidence that the crime was committed for financial gain. They spent some money after the deaths that was somewhat questionable, but they were rich kids and according to analysis of their spending patterns, buying a couple suits, watches and cars wasn’t altogether out of whack with their normal spending habits. They had no shortage of money nor ability to spend before the deaths.

Having studied it as I have, I don’t buy for a second that the crime was based on financial motives. The evidence just doesn’t support it, it was a theory the prosecution put forth simply because the victims were rich and they had nothing else.

mfitz804
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Staten Island, NY

Our resident rational liberal
Dec 29th, 2017 08:41 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I would add, if they were trying to get away with the crime and the money, killing them in their own home in such a brutal fashion probably wouldn’t be the best idea.

No doubt the murders were premeditated, and no doubt they are guilty of them.



MJB
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Who's we sucka?

Smith, Wesson and me.
Dec 30th, 2017 05:58 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"No doubt the murders were premeditated, and no doubt they are guilty of them. "

I wouldn't want to roll the dice on the hope they would not be a danger to society. I also would not want to set a precedent for future murderers to walk.

IANAL but this is just how I feel about this.

mfitz804
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Staten Island, NY

Our resident rational liberal
Dec 30th, 2017 07:06 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

“I wouldn't want to roll the dice on the hope they would not be a danger to society. I also would not want to set a precedent for future murderers to walk.”

The precedent you speak of already exists, as not every murderer receives the death penalty or life without parole; murderers are released back into society all the time. Whether that’s right or not is a whole other question, and if you’re arguing every murderer should be incarcerated for life without parole, there’s certainly arguments in favor of that. But that is not what exists today.

The question is, why did THESE murderers receive the first or second harshest possible penalty given the circumstances, where others did not?

jefe46
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State of Jefferson

Dec 30th, 2017 07:11 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Wealth envy ?

MJB
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Who's we sucka?

Smith, Wesson and me.
Dec 30th, 2017 07:48 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"The question is, why did THESE murderers receive the first or second harshest possible penalty given the circumstances, where others did not?"

Am I correct in understanding that the jury decided the penalty?

If so then I suppose they would be the only ones to provide an accurate answer to your question.

budg
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ohio

Home of the Goodyear blimp
Dec 30th, 2017 07:55 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I don’t really watch documentaries and form opinions based on those documentaries. The reason is that they are usually biased and have a tendency to conveniently leave things out.

If I recall the jury convicted them based on the case the evidence presented at the trial. They believed they murdered their parents to have total access to their wealth. Yes they lived a life of privilege, but they couldn’t spend money at will. It’s one thing to have an allowance,it’s another to have the whole shebang. They spent around 700k from the time of the murders until their arrests.

The sexual abuse theory was not proven to be a factor during the trials and was rejected by the juriy during the penalty phase. The conviction was upheld by the Supreme Court as well.

The idea that these 2 are not a threat to society is a reach imo and something that I don’t think can be guaranteed. Keeping society safe AND dishing out justice is what the judicial and penal system does. Do we let people out that killed their spouses because we don’t think they would ever kill again? No of course not. Whatever caused them to justify murdering their parents and trying to deceive everyone for months is still alive and well inside the Menendez Brothers. Fortunately for us they will never be allowed to walk free again.


(This message was last edited by budg at 10:44 AM, Dec 30th, 2017)

Peegoo
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Curled up

in the fecal position
Dec 30th, 2017 08:21 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"I don't believe these guys are a danger to anyone."

Neither did their parents, apparently.

While I can appreciate hating a person enough to want to kill them for something they committed in the past, I cannot understand taking a person's life outside of self defense at the time a crime is being committed.

And I do understand the concept of self defense to prevent continued abuse. But they were 18 and 21 at the time they killed their parents. They were grown-up young men.

They had other options besides murder.

mfitz804
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Staten Island, NY

Our resident rational liberal
Dec 30th, 2017 08:43 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

“Am I correct in understanding that the jury decided the penalty?

If so then I suppose they would be the only ones to provide an accurate answer to your question.“

They did...but only having heard limited evidence of the abuse. The first jury, which heard everything, couldn’t render a verdict. On retrial, the judge limited the defense’s efforts to present evidence of the history of abuse as was outlined by family members in the first trial. He also, at the end of the trial, refused to charge the jury regarding imperfect self defense, which their defense had entirely been based upon.

Essentially, the Judge learned from the first trial and removed the portions that prevented the jury from reaching a decision.

Do yes, they were convicted and sentenced by s jury. That doesn’t mean they weren’t sandbagged.

Peegoo
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Curled up

in the fecal position
Dec 30th, 2017 08:57 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Doh!

(This message was last edited by Peegoo at 02:44 PM, Dec 30th, 2017)

tahitijack

San Clemente, CA

Happy Sunsets, tahitijack
Dec 30th, 2017 01:21 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

This was a daily radio talk show topic in SoCal. After following the case for what seemed like years. I believe the jury reached the correct decision. Still there were those that fell in love with the brothers and were sad that after loosing their parents, they faced prison alone.

reverendrob
FDP Data Goon
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We all want

our time in hell
Dec 31st, 2017 01:17 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I don't have any sympathy to be honest.

Abuse allows for a lot, but...they also had the means to retreat far out of that orbit.

Stick it out for a couple more months, stash a pile of $$ and resources, and leave.

Peegoo
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Curled up

in the fecal position
Dec 31st, 2017 08:12 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

^^^ This.

BbendFender
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American Patriot

About as ordinary as you can get.
Dec 31st, 2017 08:37 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Being a victim of such abuse, I say take the perpetrator out as quickly as possible and use any means possible.
Most victims are young when this abuse happens and carry the scars the remainder of their life. The perpetrators are as sick as anyone can ever be. I would not be kind.

(This message was last edited by BbendFender at 10:46 AM, Dec 31st, 2017)

Blacksunshine
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Houston

Dec 31st, 2017 05:19 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

mfitz, it's interesting you bring this up.

I just recently did some reading about this case, and everything you've said I agree with just about 100%. The punishment *seems* excessive to me, considering like you mentioned, there are paroled killers walking the streets.

Why did the hammer drop on these particular guys so hard?

For example, I went to school with a guy who got life with possibility of parole in 40 years, which will be in about 20 years or so. And his victim is no less deceased than the Menendez family.

*shrugs*

mfitz804
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Staten Island, NY

Our resident rational liberal
Dec 31st, 2017 05:28 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

“I just recently did some reading about this case, and everything you've said I agree with just about 100%. The punishment *seems* excessive to me, considering like you mentioned, there are paroled killers walking the streets.

Why did the hammer drop on these particular guys so hard?”

That sums up my feelings exactly. They deserved to be convicted, nobody thinks they should have walked. A number of the responses in this thread have overlooked that point.

budg
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ohio

Home of the Goodyear blimp
Dec 31st, 2017 05:59 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Well killing a stranger is one thing. Killing a person during a robbery , maybe killing someone in the heat of an argument is one thing, but premeditated murder against your own parents and then covering it up for months all the while spending their money takes a special kind. That’s why they have minimum and maximum penalties.

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FDP Forum / Moe's Tavern (_8^(I) / Menendez Brothers...does the punishment fit the crime?




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