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FDP Forum / Moe's Tavern (_8^(I) / New Handgun Course, pretty exciting addition ... Front Sight Content

BlondeStrat
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Las Vegas NV

Can't complain but sometimes I still do
Dec 21st, 2017 02:32 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I know this topic can cause torment here on the FDP, MODs kill it if need be.

Anyway, Front Sight is starting a new course. It will be offered on a regular basis.

Most of the courses are pretty static and relate directly to learning very specific technique, be it basic or advanced.

To get into the more practical use of these techniques there were always courses offered, but generally they were offered on pretty long intervals.

Looks like this new *Advanced Tactical Handgun Course* will be offered about twice a month and will involve the Practical use of all the techniques learned in the *Basic Handgun Course* and also the *Tactical Handgun Course* and plenty more.

Some of the curriculum ...

------------------------------------------
Activities in the 2-Day Advanced Tactical Handgun include:

Presenting your handgun while on the move

Responding to threats from the rear

Responding to threats utilizing non-standard presentation techniques

Shooting from unconventional positions (lying on your back, lying on your side)

One handed malfunction clearances using either the firing or support hand

Situational decision making based on your opponent’s weapon, characteristics, and proximity

Advanced use of cover and concealment

Malfunction clearances on the move

Weapon presentation from within a vehicle (including egress from the vehicle)

Shooting around or under vehicles and other types of cover or concealment

Advanced low light and night techniques, such as utilizing cover while using a flashlight

--------------------------------

After 20 years of Front Sight's existence there are really a lot of shooters becoming very, very skilled in all the technique of shooting, so making these *Practical Use* courses more readily available should be a big deal for a bunch of us.

While I personally don't include the word "fun" with my activities at Front Sight ... I can assure you there are a great many that think this course is going to be a really big bundle of "FUN". ;)

Harleyboy
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Oregon

Best dryfire is at the range with ammo
Dec 21st, 2017 02:38 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Looks like a great course. A lot of stuff to cover in 2 days so there won't be any standing around time..

Make the most of it, maybe even have a little bit of "fun".

mfitz804
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Our resident rational liberal
Dec 21st, 2017 02:45 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"One handed malfunction clearances"

I hate when baseball players feel the need to do that in the middle of an at bat...on TV no less!!

BlondeStrat
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Las Vegas NV

Can't complain but sometimes I still do
Dec 21st, 2017 02:46 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Harleyboy, the training days are *Full Days* 8:00am to 5:00pm and there is very little down time. Then with the *Night Shoot* you extend day one by about three or four hours.

These type course do tend to have a bit more "off the line" time where you are in sequence to do the next drill. Obviously, much of this can't be done with the entire class in one iteration.

All of this stuff was included in a course I took a couple of years ago and it was extremely enlightening. There are certain complexities with some of this stuff that if you have never done it, it could be a problem. Once have experienced it, those complexities are not a problem.

Pinetree
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NW Pennsylvania

Dec 21st, 2017 02:48 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

How much?




Peegoo
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Dec 21st, 2017 02:49 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Wow, only two days? That's a lot of stuff to cover, but they probably expect everyone will go home and practice it all. That's really the only way to stay sharp on this stuff.

In the business, most combat handgun training courses are at least one to two weeks in length, and there are also periodic refresher training events.

But any training is better than none. And practice practice practice.

BlondeStrat
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Can't complain but sometimes I still do
Dec 21st, 2017 02:56 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"How much?"

Money? Well, the short answer is: I show up with my ammo and lunch and take the course, that's it.

Really, not anyone going to Front Sight pays to take courses. There may be some odd situations where someone might pay up for it ... They will surely take a person's money, but that (selling courses) not how the place is set up to operate.

Everything on the web site has a *shelf value* and this course is tagged at $1,000.00.

Assuming you wanted to come check out Front Sight it would be as I have always said here on the FDP. I can supply you a course certificate or membership and with that all you need is your gear, ammo and lunch.

And I'd absolutely love to do it.

(This message was last edited by BlondeStrat at 05:25 PM, Dec 21st, 2017)

BlondeStrat
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Can't complain but sometimes I still do
Dec 21st, 2017 03:03 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Wow, only two days? That's a lot of stuff to cover, but they probably expect everyone will go home and practice it all. That's really the only way to stay sharp on this stuff."

Geno, here is the deal though. All of the *normal* techniques used by a student in this course are learned prior to showing up.

To qualify to take this course you must score over 90% on the basic skills test (not at all easy for any average Joe) and you must have at least taken the *Tactical Handgun Course*. You would not find an unproven schlub on this range.

As everyone who has been involved in firearms training fully realizes, you don't walk out of one of these courses thinking you have "mastered" anything. Generally you have simply exposed yourself to what it is that you need to learn and work to perfect.

If a person is taking the course for "fun" that's one thing...

To actually master any of it we need to plan to do it over and over and over on our own and repeat the course to stay on the proper track in terms of technique.

Practice is only useful if it's *Perfect Practice* ;)

(This message was last edited by BlondeStrat at 07:38 PM, Dec 21st, 2017)

Malcolm
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Edmond, OK

Dec 29th, 2017 03:28 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

So, it's an in-redsidence thing
?

Pinetree
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NW Pennsylvania

Dec 29th, 2017 03:32 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Sounds like a money-spending thing.




vomer
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Dec 29th, 2017 04:57 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

'Unconventional positions' should cover that movie moment where you have to get across the open end of a corridor containing the bad guys. You know the one, you have to leap into the air so your body is horizontal facing into the corridor, while rotating in mid air like a hog on a spit, with a handgun in each hand, taking out some bad guys and making a perfect landing on the other side.

That would be worth the fee.

BlondeStrat
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Can't complain but sometimes I still do
Dec 29th, 2017 06:04 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"So, it's an in-redsidence thing?"

"Sounds like a money-spending thing."

Maybe I can address both at once here.

Front Sight operates on memberships, referred to as *First Family*. Memberships have varying levels, but most cover about any course that is offered.

Once you have a membership you can take any course you like, as many times as you like, as often as you like, for the rest of your life, for free. Pretty simple.

You just have to register two weeks in advance to insure placement ... obviously they have to schedule range crews.

In a nutshell continuous ongoing money is generated via ongoing special offers to upgrade memberships or other types of offers. You can choose to buy in or not ... ignoring offers has absolutely no impact on your existing membership.

Everyone realizes this is NOT any sort of normal business plan and it does create some limitations for Dr. Piazza when it comes to ongoing construction of the facility. Things need to be paid for as they are done.

I get that this sounds crazy to anyone that can only focus on *commonly accepted business practices* ... but the fact is that Dr. Piazza has made this work for over 20 years now.

To tell the truth, I have taken so may courses that some of my upgrade purchases were simply my gut feeling that I owed more money for all the training I had received. Pretty much *Conscience Money*, not unlike the FDP really.

Front Sight trains about 35,000 students per year and on any given week you can expect between 600 and 900 students to be taking courses.

They just completed another 25 ranges which will allow for some of the existing ranges to be shut down. The logistics of additional construction of the resort are such that some of the current ranges will not be accessible during construction.

Once the resort construction is complete Front Sight will have the capacity to train up to 2000 students per week.

They instruct in handgun, rifle, shotgun, submachine gun, edged weapons, empty hand and rappelling ... including some course that combine those skills. They also have children's courses.

When taking courses no matter what you think your skill level is, you would start out in a Basic Course. No one gets to any advanced course until they have demonstrated (via the skills test) their proficiency at the basic skills.

Anyway, ask questions if you have any ... I'll answer.



(This message was last edited by BlondeStrat at 08:40 PM, Dec 29th, 2017)

BlondeStrat
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Can't complain but sometimes I still do
Dec 29th, 2017 06:10 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"That would be worth the fee."

vomer, something you learn in some of the advanced courses is that out in a real world scenario a lot of the specific technique we learn may or may not apply.

If you use any given technique (orthodox or otherwise) and it works to solve your problem ... it must have been a good technique. ;)

vomer
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Dec 30th, 2017 05:13 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I can appreciate that from martial arts. My own practice has gravitated towards the simple and effective over the years.

It occurred to me reading the course format, and particularly with things like presenting on the move or unconventional positions, that many people don't realise that unless they have some kind of practice like yoga, some sports, or martial arts, when you ask your body to do something that it isn't used to doing, it may not do it very well. The balance and coordination involved in something apparently simple like say kneeling on one knee, reaching for a weapon and then bringing it up to eye level may not work as you'd expect. I've noticed in previous threads that these courses have their naysayers but I imagine that along with the actual shooting techniques they could also be very useful for a whole range of fundamental skills such as balance, coordination, and being aware of what's going on around you.

BlondeStrat
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Can't complain but sometimes I still do
Dec 30th, 2017 08:27 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

What you say is oh so true.

The basic courses stick strictly to standing on a firing line and working to master just the basic presentation, stance, shooting and manipulations of the gun. Nothing fancy at all. Learn the basics, engrain safety and develop a skill.

In tactical handgun some of the more complex techniques come into the picture. As you mention presenting and going to kneeling or to prone. Presenting to a target to your left, right or 180 degrees behind you.

On these, as you mention, they are not so easy to do smoothly, efficiently and safely (without muzzling everything in the vicinity) unless you have learned a good method and practiced it.

Per your martial arts reference ... there is always the issue of being armed and dealing with an adversary that is so close you could punch him in the nose. Something you really don't want to make a mistake at.

We hear the saying, *You don't know what you don't know*. It is very much the case when a person gets into defensive firearms training.

I could not even count the number of things I have learned that I would have never even thought of otherwise.

I took my (about 55 year old) brother-in-law to a basic four day course a couple of years ago. He is a guy that has been around firearms his entire life.

After day two he tells me (as we were heading home), "I've learned more in the last two days than I had learned in the entire rest of my life."

(This message was last edited by BlondeStrat at 10:31 AM, Dec 30th, 2017)

FDP Forum / Moe's Tavern (_8^(I) / New Handgun Course, pretty exciting addition ... Front Sight Content




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