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FDP Forum / Moe's Tavern (_8^(I) / Is "Die Hard" a Christmas Movie?

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mfitz804
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Staten Island, NY

Our resident rational liberal
Dec 5th, 2017 02:10 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

This is a particularly infuriating debate topic that I thought would be perfect for the FDP.

My position is, Die Hard is NOT a "Christmas Movie" because:

1) The theme of the movie has nothing to do with Christmas nor anything related to the holidays; it just happens to be set at Christmas time.

2) It was released July 15, 1988, and Christmas movies are typically released in November, i.e., during Christmas season or close thereto.

3) Christmas movies aren't full of murder.

4) The only people who usually say it IS a Christmas movie are people who don't like Christmas movies, and they are trying to shoe-horn in an action movie. I expect the FDP to be chock-full of these guys.

In closing, arguing that Die Hard is a Christmas movie is like arguing that The Godfather is a romantic comedy because there's a wedding scene.

Now tell me why I'm wrong. Or add support to why I am so obviously right.

Leftee
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VA

Life makes a man tired.
Dec 5th, 2017 02:18 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

LOL

I got nuttin. I’ll just sit over here and enjoy the ensuing discussion.

I kinda want to argue the other side. That must be the vitamin D.

(This message was last edited by Leftee at 04:36 PM, Dec 5th, 2017)

NoSoapRadio
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Mass., Amerika

CO2 ... is there anything it can't do?
Dec 5th, 2017 02:34 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"3) Christmas movies aren't full of murder."

Hmmm -- would you like to walk that back? There are actually Christmas movies where the main character ends up dead -- for a while.

To argue you point for "Die Hard" *not* being a Christmas movie:

All the points you mentioned.

On the other hand:

I would love to find a 1988 Bonnie Bedelia under my tree.

archiestone
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El Californio

Dec 5th, 2017 02:40 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

In defense of it being an xmas movie: I think I recall there are a few xmas tunes scattered in there amidst the carnage & mayhem, if only to provide a humorous counterpoint.

BobbyMac
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California Escapee

Don't look at me with that tone of voice
Dec 5th, 2017 02:42 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

The Christmas season has long been a traditional release time for films for as long as I can remember (and I'm 65). It seems silly to opine that a movie released around Christmas somehow has to be about Christmas. That's just not how it is, or should be.

Leftee
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VA

Life makes a man tired.
Dec 5th, 2017 02:45 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Didn’t a Christmas tree get shredded with automatic weapons fire?

Or am I thinking of another Christmas movie?

insanecooker
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Houston, TX

Dec 5th, 2017 02:45 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Now I've got a machine gun. Ho Ho Ho" is clearly season-appropriate.

Peegoo
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Roisin, I wanna

fight your father
Dec 5th, 2017 02:53 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Well, Christmas IS about giving, and Bruce Willis gives the bad guys a generous helping of hard times.

Leftee
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VA

Life makes a man tired.
Dec 5th, 2017 02:54 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Lots of lead was exchanged.

thumbpicker
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St. Louis

"Thumbpicks don't slide into soundholes"
Dec 5th, 2017 03:09 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Well the crap started at an office Christmas party.
Reminds me of a few places I've worked.....Not everyone was back the following week after the party.

mfitz804
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Staten Island, NY

Our resident rational liberal
Dec 5th, 2017 03:24 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

""3) Christmas movies aren't full of murder."

Hmmm -- would you like to walk that back? There are actually Christmas movies where the main character ends up dead -- for a while."

I am not sure which movies you are referring to, but there is certainly a big difference between "main character ends up dead--for a while" and "full of murder". I didn't say "nobody dies".

I googled how many people Bruce Willis kills in that movie, and naturally, the internet had the answer. Its 73.

"The Christmas season has long been a traditional release time for films for as long as I can remember (and I'm 65). It seems silly to opine that a movie released around Christmas somehow has to be about Christmas. That's just not how it is, or should be."

I didn't opine that, I opined that for a movie to be a "Christmas movie", its usually released around Christmas. You don't see a lot of Summer blockbuster Christmas movies.

Obviously the scenario you proposed is correct, not all movies released this time of year are about Christmas.

mfitz804
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Staten Island, NY

Our resident rational liberal
Dec 5th, 2017 03:25 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"In defense of it being an xmas movie: I think I recall there are a few xmas tunes scattered in there amidst the carnage & mayhem, if only to provide a humorous counterpoint."

"Didn’t a Christmas tree get shredded with automatic weapons fire?"

"Now I've got a machine gun. Ho Ho Ho" is clearly season-appropriate."

"Well the crap started at an office Christmas party. "

I don't think the mere fact that a movie takes place at Christmas time, and as such shows elements of Christmas, necessarily makes it a "Christmas movie".


Leftee
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VA

Life makes a man tired.
Dec 5th, 2017 03:32 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I think you offer a narrower view than some of us.

Gato
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Southern Calif

Dec 5th, 2017 03:42 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Rotten Tomatoes cites Die Hard as "the definitive holiday action classic."

Of course, they didn't say WHICH holiday ...

And I suppose if Mr. Nakatomi (CEO who owns the ill fated building) had instead been Mr. Moskowitz, the line would have gone:

"Now I have a machine gun. Oy, oy, oy.

NoSoapRadio
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Mass., Amerika

CO2 ... is there anything it can't do?
Dec 5th, 2017 03:51 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"but there is certainly a big difference between "main character ends up dead--for a while" and "full of murder""

Unless you consider that Christmas is only about that one guy -- the guy that got murdered.

I get it that you want your kids to associate Christmas with Santa, reindeer and elves. But that's not what it's about.

I'm not pushing Christianity -- but it seems silly to picking and choosing between Christmas *things* -- none of which have anything to do with Christmas.

Leftee
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VA

Life makes a man tired.
Dec 5th, 2017 03:55 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

We had dancing Santas in church. Just sayin.

mfitz804
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Staten Island, NY

Our resident rational liberal
Dec 5th, 2017 04:18 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Unless you consider that Christmas is only about that one guy -- the guy that got murdered.

I get it that you want your kids to associate Christmas with Santa, reindeer and elves. But that's not what it's about.

I'm not pushing Christianity -- but it seems silly to picking and choosing between Christmas *things* -- none of which have anything to do with Christmas."

I did know which story you were referring to, but I can still argue this point.

1) I said "full of murder", and that story just had the one murder. If you are a Christian, I'll admit, its a pretty notable murder. I will admit that murdering Jesus does not prevent your movie from becoming a Christmas movie. Jesus wasn't murdered in Die Hard, so its not applicable here.

2) I don't think anyone can argue that the story of Jesus isn't a Christmas movie. However, I am equally as sure that as a genre, "Christmas movies" are full of Santa, reindeer and elves, and all of the stuff that you believe has "nothing to do with Christmas". You can think that's wrong, you can deny it, but you'd be 100% wrong.

3) In furtherance of that, the argument that Santa, reindeer and elves have "nothing to do with Christmas" is a really weak argument. One need only look at the decorations, the cards, the store displays, etc. to see that tens (hundreds?) of millions of people around the world include Santa, elves and reindeer as part of Christmas. Whether they SHOULD have anything to do with Christmas is a different argument, but to argue that they aren't? All evidence to the contrary.

4) You don't really know what my kid (I only have one) associates with Christmas, or what her religious study/upbringing has been, or what I have taught her/what her knowledge of the true meaning of Christmas is, nor what she knows about "what it's about", regardless of whether or not she also embraces the Santa/reindeer/elf side of things.

5) I brought up a topic for debate on an internet forum. If we are going to prohibit the choosing of a side on a particular issue because it "seems silly", what the hell are we going to talk about???



mfitz804
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Staten Island, NY

Our resident rational liberal
Dec 5th, 2017 04:22 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

6) there’s plenty of evidence that Jesus was actually born on Christmas Day, but rather that we celebrate that day because it was combined with a winter festival that also occurred that time of year. In that respect, perhaps even did Jesus portion of Christmas isn’t real. If you believe, not forcing that on anyone either.

Leftee
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VA

Life makes a man tired.
Dec 5th, 2017 04:25 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Dancing Santas

Church

Who’d a thunk it?



NoSoapRadio
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Mass., Amerika

CO2 ... is there anything it can't do?
Dec 5th, 2017 05:33 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"You don't really know what my kid (I only have one) associates with Christmas, or what her religious study/upbringing has been, or what I have taught her/what her knowledge of the true meaning of Christmas is,"

I don't need to know. From what I know about you, I'm sure she will be equipped with everything she needs to grow into a compassionate, rational, adult.

My own kids celebrated Christmas with Frosty, Rudolph, the Grinch, Charlie Brown and Snoopy, as well as Jesus -- they all turned out just fine.

"I brought up a topic for debate on an internet forum. If we are going to prohibit the choosing of a side on a particular issue because it "seems silly", what the hell are we going to talk about???"

I thought choosing a side was necessary to have a debate? -- I was picking a side.

Like you, I am perfectly comfortable arguing either side of a debate.

I love this time of year -- call it Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, or Festivus -- doesn't matter to me. It's a time for reflection and to put things in perspective, and to share one's good fortune with those who may not be so fortunate.

If someone wants to add Bonnie Bedelia to the mix, who am I to argue?




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FDP Forum / Moe's Tavern (_8^(I) / Is "Die Hard" a Christmas Movie?




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