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FDP Forum / Moe's Tavern (_8^(I) / An "Ethical Conundrum".

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SS2

Alexandria, Virginia

Dec 3rd, 2017 04:06 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Doesn't say "Maybe Resuscitate"... sure looks like a plain wish to me.

Taildragger
Contributing Member
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USA

an acquired taste some may never acquire
Dec 3rd, 2017 04:13 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I'm no lawyer, but I'll hazard a guess that a tattoo doesn't constitute a legal document. And in our litigious society, that makes a difference.

Te 52

Laws of Physics

strictly enforced
Dec 3rd, 2017 04:27 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"What, that tattoo? Pfft -- got that one night when I was stoned. Hell, no, I don't really mean it, but I'm too cheap to get it removed."

jefe46
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State of Jefferson

Dec 3rd, 2017 04:31 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Was the tattoo in black or blue ink ?

(This message was last edited by jefe46 at 06:32 PM, Dec 3rd, 2017)

littleuch
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Florida

Pronounced "Klinkhammer"
Dec 3rd, 2017 04:32 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Yeah, I can see the doctor's dilemma. If there are standards and requirements to a written DNR then I can see this being an invalid method of expressing it.

hushnel
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North Florida

A Friend of Bill W.
Dec 3rd, 2017 05:24 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

What if it was tattooed by a lawyer, or would it have to be, to be legal.

I’m thinking it’s a valid statement of his wishes,

mfitz804
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Staten Island, NY

Our resident rational liberal
Dec 3rd, 2017 05:31 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

“I'm no lawyer, but I'll hazard a guess that a tattoo doesn't constitute a legal document. And in our litigious society, that makes a difference. “

Absolutely correct. That’s not good enough, just like an unsigned piece of paper that said “Do Not Resuscitate” would be no good. Moreover, the formalities and it being unsigned held aside, how could you ever know if that was STILL his wishes? What if he had changed his mind but hadn’t yet been back to the tattoo artist? What if he was a big fan of a band called Do Not Resuscitate and it was never his actual wishes at all!

No doctor should follow tattooed instructions and honestly, if that was the ONLY way the guy expressed his wish, that was incredibly dumb.



larryguitar19
Contributing Member
*****

South Florida

larryguitar
Dec 3rd, 2017 07:54 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

It's a non issue. A DNR regardless of the formalities is ultimately only an expression of wishes. It is not binding on the doctors. In the end the hospitals and doctors are gonna do whatever they think is best and they will probably resuscitate you if it saves your life but not if it only returns you to a vegetative state.

That's what that's all about. The ethical dilemma arises when the doctors are uncertain about the prognosis.

(This message was last edited by larryguitar19 at 11:09 PM, Dec 3rd, 2017)

Jake
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West Chester PA

Wait, what?
Dec 4th, 2017 06:22 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I tend to think it may have been meant as a provocative comment and had nothing to do with his wishes on the subject.

Leftee
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VA

Life makes a man tired.
Dec 4th, 2017 06:26 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"I tend to think it may have been meant as a provocative comment and had nothing to do with his wishes on the subject."

As is the case with so many tattoos. Who knows for sure? Only the unconscious guy.

Jake
Contributing Member
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West Chester PA

Wait, what?
Dec 4th, 2017 06:34 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"As is the case with so many tattoos."

Especially the ones on the forehead.

Leftee
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VA

Life makes a man tired.
Dec 4th, 2017 06:44 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I was going to rent my fivehead out as a billboard.

Leftee
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VA

Life makes a man tired.
Dec 4th, 2017 06:45 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Also my band name. Leftee and the Fiveheads.

mfitz804
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Staten Island, NY

Our resident rational liberal
Dec 4th, 2017 06:45 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Now if you want to be hardcore and tattoo the entire DNR document on your back and sign it and have two witnesses, maybe that they could honor!!

Gato
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Southern Calif

Dec 4th, 2017 08:56 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

So .... the Last Will and Testament I have tattooed on my butt cheeks ... I need a Notary stamp on there as well?

Leftee
Contributing Member
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VA

Life makes a man tired.
Dec 4th, 2017 08:59 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

... and the required signatures.

You butt must be signed.

FlyonNylon
Contributing Member
*

East Tennessee

Dec 4th, 2017 09:17 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

ER doc here..

not a legally binding document and absolutely likely for the doc/hospital to get sued by family thousands of miles away for failing to intervene.

I've seen this before, most notably in a young trauma patient.

There were probably 20 family members causing a ruckus in the lobby who would've sued for millions and shut the whole thing down if we hadn't worked on him..

Hammond101
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So. Cal. USA

Dec 4th, 2017 10:03 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"The hospital staff eventually tracked down the patient's written instructions that confirmed the language on the tattoo, which also included a tattooed signature."

Reading the entire article I found this paragraph above. It looks like his actual wish was DNR.

Unless there is someone around, family or a close friend, who is close to the failing individual who has daily contact and is noted on a document who is ever to know if someone changes their mind. Even then, people lie.

professor
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North Gnarlyington

Dec 4th, 2017 10:14 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Somebody who goes to the trouble to have the phrase, 'Do Not Resuscitate' tattooed on your chest with the word 'Not' underscored is somebody who has thought this through. This is not something you do on a whim."

I beg to differ. Whim + alcohol = tattoo.

HeavyDuty
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Northeast IL

Not very bright but does lack ambition
Dec 4th, 2017 10:51 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Here in IL, the exact form must be followed for a DNR to be valid - even down to the color of the paper. We were taught that in a trauma situation to ignore it.

IMO, DNRs are only useful for patients with terminal illnesses at end of life.

Previous 20 Messages  

FDP Forum / Moe's Tavern (_8^(I) / An "Ethical Conundrum".




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