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FDP Forum / Guitar Mods, Repairs, and Projects / Treble Bleed

roadhog96

USA / N.East Coast

Nov 14th, 2017 06:27 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I want to add a Treble bleed to my Strat and Tele. I'd like to use some 716 series .002uF 100V orange drops but seems like all everyone carries is the 600V. I dont think it's a problem using 600V but I'm concered there might be a size difference between the 100V and 600V. Not sure if its going to fit nicely in the cavity on both guitars. Anyone have any experience with these caps and know if there is much difference in size or whether it will fit.


Pinetree
Moderator Emeritus
(with many stars)

NW Pennsylvania

Nov 14th, 2017 08:23 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

There's plenty of room in most guitars, but the parts for your treble bleeds are easy enough to come by (Stew Mac, Antique Electronics Supply, Small Bear) that it shouldn't be any problem.



DrKev
Contributing Member
******

Paris, France

It's just a guitar, not rocket science.
Nov 15th, 2017 02:01 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Stew Mac sell them at 100V.

Can I point out that 0.002µF (= 2000pF = 2nF) is too big to use on it's own for a treble bleed. Almost every pickup manufacturere recommends half that value or less and only in combination with a resistor (usually the 100-300 kΩ range in parallel with the cap). Only PRS recommend a single capacitor on it's own and that is 180pF, a factor of ten smaller than what you mention here. Orange Drops don't come that small. See my linked post below for a roundup of what manuafacturers recommend. You can pick randomly from the middle of the list and be happy with the results.

Also note that contrary to internet lore, all capacitors of the same value sound 100% identical. Your guitars will sound just as good with the smallest ceramic capacitor as they will with any orange drop, or bumblebee, or magicwhatnot of the same value.

DrKev's Treble Bleed Mod round up.

Pinetree
Moderator Emeritus
(with many stars)

NW Pennsylvania

Nov 15th, 2017 03:30 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

And there you have it.




Mick Reid
Contributing Member
****

Australia

American-made in Oz!!
Nov 15th, 2017 05:04 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Good info DrKev. I've bookmarked that link now! Agreed about the cap types. Electrons don't care.

"Almost every pickup manufacturer recommends half that value or less and only in combination with a resistor..."

FWIW, I've seen Fender guitars that come with the treble bleed from the factory (one of my tele's I think) just used the .001uf cap and no resistor.

I have used this myself and been happy with the result, OMMV. I have used the parallel resistor on some guitars as well.
Always tinkering... ;^)


roadhog96

USA / N.East Coast

Nov 15th, 2017 10:00 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

DrKev, thanks for that well written article it's very informative and helpful. As for the .002 well I did the same thing on another post. I figured out what happened. I meant to hit the #1 so the value should have been .0012 but what's happening is, it's the angle I hold the iPad on my lap in my Lazy Boy recliner and the angle my stylus is hitting the screen. I guess the stylus is tempermental. The screen needs to be tapped almost straight on with the stylus or it will not work correctly.

(This message was last edited by roadhog96 at 12:02 PM, Nov 15th, 2017)

DrKev
Contributing Member
******

Paris, France

It's just a guitar, not rocket science.
Nov 15th, 2017 12:56 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"FWIW, I've seen Fender guitars that come with the treble bleed from the factory (one of my tele's I think) just used the .001uf cap and no resistor."

Really?? Wow. Interestingly, on their new American Professional Series guitars, they use a 1.2 nF cap, 150kΩ parallel resisitor AND a 20kΩ series resistor. I've upadte my article to include it.

Mick Reid
Contributing Member
****

Australia

American-made in Oz!!
Nov 15th, 2017 04:07 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

DrKev,
Upon reflection, it may have been one of my a G&L's. My memory ain't what it used to be :^)

If it *was* a Fender, it would have been a MIM model. MIA's are out of my budget here!

DrKev
Contributing Member
******

Paris, France

It's just a guitar, not rocket science.
Nov 16th, 2017 08:10 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I reactivated my CircuitLab account and ran a simulation using this extra series resistor in the new Fender circuit. It slightly "improves" the change in pot taper (i.e. a little closer to 'stock'), slightly lowers the resonant peak frequency and slightly broadens the peak.Could be a useful tool in fine tuning the characteristics? Yes.
Will anyone notice compared to the normal cap + parallel resistor? Unlikely, the differences in response with and without this extra cap are pretty small.

Is this version (i.e. those component values) a better or even best circuit? No. The problem in doing ciruit simulations to determine the frequency response and output is that the "best" solution depends on your cable as much as your volume pot values or amp/pedals. (It's the cable capacitance that casues the issue in the first place). The "best" values to choose will therefore depend on what lies on the floor between your guitar and amp, or even what pedals are switched on at a given time. If you use a 30ft cable, you'll need a different value than if you use a 10ft cable.

And then your ears come into play.

Moral of the story: just suck 'em and see.

FDP Forum / Guitar Mods, Repairs, and Projects / Treble Bleed




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