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FDP Forum / Miscellaneous and Non-Fender Topics / I see Gibson is slowly raising prices again...

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Peegoo
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Enjoying

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Nov 5th, 2017 04:44 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I can understand Gibson management wanting to expand their appeal by offering 'modern' features to the younger buyer, but the new guitar market is actually quite narrow.

They could'v learned from Fender's relative failure of the G-Dec and Cyber Twin amps. Even young guitar players are aware of tradition and history--and they don't demand a lot of features in an amp or guitar. This also explains the huge stomp box market: most players like a simple amp and a few pedals to tweak their sound.

reverendrob
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our time in hell
Nov 6th, 2017 05:51 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

They already did cut down in '17 and '18 - the huge color selection on LP Studios, as an example, went the way of the dodo, and the HP line shrank hardcore.

I ordered the last '16 HP Studio in alpine white because of that on Thursday, I am *not* spending $3300 on a HP Standard.

Peegoo
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Nov 6th, 2017 07:42 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Yeah. A few short years ago, you could get a custom shop LP for that price. Things are out of control.

It's sad because I have several extremely nice Gibsons. I hope they can get a handle on their market and their products.

Stick to the basics, Gibson. That's how you got good in the first place!

stratluvr
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Alcohol- Because No

Good Story Ever Started by Drinking Milk
Nov 6th, 2017 01:28 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

All I know is that American made goods have gone up in price dramatically over the last couple years. I'm not really sure what the cause is because the dollar isn't in the gutter as far as I know.

Peegoo
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Nov 6th, 2017 02:33 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

The cost of US-made goods has increased due to the glut of cheaper imported goods.

As demand for cheaper imported goods increasingly displaces those of domestic origin (trade imbalance), it becomes economically untenable for domestic companies to compete. The continued increase of imported goods also tends to promote a comparative depreciation in the exchange rate of the importing country.

I think two things are at the root of the issue: varying economies (inflation tends to increase at a much faster rate in the US than in other countries that supply goods to the US, such as China, India, Indonesia, etc.), and trade imbalance.

Additionally, labor and business overhead in the US are much more costly than elsewhere. We have a high standard of living in the US. Worker salaries must reflect that standard, and that makes costs for goods and services increase in a parallel manner. Businesses need to pay their workforce more as the cost of living continues to increase. It's a cycle.

This is the primary reason why a sizable increase in the minimum wage does not put more money into the pockets of the "starter-job" workforce. It increases a business's operating costs (higher salaries for the workers), which drives up the costs for the goods/services the business provides. That drives up the overall cost of living for the region. It's like a dog chasing its tail.

I'm by no means an expert on any of this stuff, but that's how I understand how trade balance affects domestic costs across the board.

Hammond101
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So. Cal. USA

Nov 6th, 2017 05:43 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

It's not just Gibson. Have you seen Fender prices lately? Everything is going up, more if it is built domestically.

walshb
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Manchester, TN

12,423 Mustangs passed and counting
Nov 6th, 2017 05:54 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I met a Gibson rep years ago and he told me that Gibson raised their prices every year, it's part of making the instrument a "good investment" because they'll always go up in value. Don't know if that's true but seemed to be pretty much the case all these years.

LeftyMeister

Buckeye Country, USA

Motorcycles, Guitars, and Golf
Nov 6th, 2017 07:18 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

There are far too many other options than to pay that kinda money for a name.

Peegoo
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Nov 6th, 2017 07:22 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

There are waaaay better investments than guitars. And if you play them--they decrease in value.

reverend mikey
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Nov 6th, 2017 08:19 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

It's not just workers' salaries that drive up the price, but also other employee benefits, like health insurance, retirement, paid vacation, etc. Many of these simply aren't offered to the overseas workers that are "the competition."

walshb
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Manchester, TN

12,423 Mustangs passed and counting
Nov 6th, 2017 08:23 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Anyone know what a 2006 Gibson R8 will be worth 20 years from now?
I do! A whole lot more than a 2006 Epi LP. Especially if Gibson goes out of business.

reverendrob
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our time in hell
Nov 7th, 2017 12:54 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Fender's gone through the roof to a point where I started buying Gibson instead.

I could get a nice midline or better Gibson for the price of an American-made offset (to actual specs, not the stripped-down crap of the new American Professional stuff etc).

When the LP Studio HP was $50 more than the lowest proper MIA Jaguar...there was a problem, a real problem.

The Studio HPs have actual MOP inlays etc, finish options, high-end accoutrements, etc.

The Marr Jaguar (the only low-end MIA offset that was even close to specs) had $$$ in the name and the boutique pickups, and there was no way in hell I was paying that kind of money for a bolt-on factory guitar.

Fender's problem among other things IMO is California manufacturing - the cost of doing business in CA is MASSIVE, especially for nitro-spraying and other environmental silliness.

greg1948
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Vero Beach FL

Tbird Greg
Nov 7th, 2017 05:54 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

When I first saw the 2017 Gibson LP Classic at GC, the price was $1999. Then it went to $1799. Then 2 weeks ago, it was priced at $1650. It was the last one and the salesguy said they were clearing out the current stock to make way for the 2018's. I weighed waiting to see if they'd go any lower against the chance that I'd lose the opportunity for a good deal. So I pulled the trigger.

As I always do, I check prices for something I've bought after the purchase to assure myself that I did get a good deal, and it turns out that I did.

Charente
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France

Nov 7th, 2017 10:39 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Fender's gone through the roof to a point where I started buying Gibson instead.

I could get a nice midline or better Gibson for the price of an American-made offset (to actual specs, not the stripped-down crap of the new American Professional stuff etc).

When the LP Studio HP was $50 more than the lowest proper MIA Jaguar...there was a problem, a real problem.

The Studio HPs have actual MOP inlays etc, finish options, high-end accoutrements, etc."

I'll give you the extra $ for some mollusc but a neck a body and some glue v a neck a body and four screws (and a neckplate)?




reverendrob
FDP Data Goon
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We all want

our time in hell
Nov 7th, 2017 01:59 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Time for assembly on the neck joint/glue and the finish differences, and the plek, and the titanium stuff, and...

FunkyKikuchiyo

VT

Nov 8th, 2017 07:23 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Time for assembly on the neck joint/glue and the finish differences, and the plek, and the titanium stuff, and..."

Having known several ex-pats from Gibson, I seriously doubt they are tracking labor hours and costs that closely. I've worked for manufacturers that are very good at this, and everything I have heard tells me they don't have good enough habits to anything but guess about how much time/money they have into any given instrument going out the door. They probably have one or two engineers who are "process engineers" who might walk around with stopwatches sometimes, and then managerial forces push them to fudge numbers to make production seem more efficient. In my experience, you need to track ALL labor hours, not just samples, if you want to really know where time and money is going.

Additionally the prices of models rarely make sense from a manufacturing stand point. They'll have short lived models that are way too cheap and were likely losing money on, but Les Pauls are consistently very expensive... sorry, but making a solid body instrument in the age of CNCs doesn't need an $8k price tag.

What is really going to hurt them is the bad press over the past year or two. Dealers and other people in the industry, as well as a group of hard core followers of the business (like on the FDP) have known that Gibson has been very strange and making questionable decisions, but largely kept it amongst themselves. It just isn't good practice to bad mouth another company unless you absolutely have to to save face. But now that more and more people know, they will be questioning things like price increases. "Aren't I just paying extra for another stupid R&D project no one wants?" "Am I just paying off extra debt?". This is more than speculation on my part... I've heard a lot of chatter through my own shop about it. I've had people bringing recent proud purchases in for me to look at saying "I thought it was going to be good, but after hearing how bad the company is these days..." If the articles, blogs, videos and so forth keep coming, they will need to restructure if only as a PR maneuver.

reverendrob
FDP Data Goon
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We all want

our time in hell
Nov 9th, 2017 12:40 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I've been very happy with what I'm buying, but it feels like they're lighting dollar bills on fire with the models I've been buying from the robotuners to the ridiculous photon torpedo cases to the 18 paint options on the '16 Studios...etc.

Second one arrived today. I'm very, very glad I got the thing because...I can't afford $3400 for the '18 Standard HP. I can swing a $2k instrument tops...and at the $1600 this one came to me for NIB, I'm immensely happy.

I paid full retail for my first one ($1900) the minute it came out, so getting one as they're going away is fine.

My guess on what they think they have into them is obvious by the level of discounting by the big dealers (the < $600 DCs, or the $600-800 normalish Studios, etc).

New one out of the box with its brother, as I rebuild the apartment after renovations.

Leftee
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VA

Fear the Klinkhammer
Nov 9th, 2017 05:20 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Nice Rob! Congrats!

Leftee
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VA

Fear the Klinkhammer
Nov 9th, 2017 05:43 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

As mentioned... price raising is not unique the Gibson.

I bought my Les Paul earlier this year and paid the full price. I shopped online as it was my only option. I ended up buying from Sam Ash because they had “mine.” The weight, color and figured top all came together for me in this guitar. I didn’t want to wait until the end of year sales and risk compromising. I rarely buy something at full price. But I did this time. And I’m still very happy with my purchase.

I wish Gibson many successful and profitable years to come. It would be sad to see them fail.

reverend mikey
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N of I-90, E of I-29

You're old. Then vintage. Then good!
Nov 9th, 2017 07:05 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Which pickups are in those, reverendrob?

Previous 20 Messages  

FDP Forum / Miscellaneous and Non-Fender Topics / I see Gibson is slowly raising prices again...




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