FDP Home Page / FDP Forum / FAQ's

The FDP is made possible by the following companies and individual members like you.
Please use the links below to show them we value their sponsorship.

Apex Tube Matching

Jensen Loudspeakers

Amplified Parts

Sweetwater

Musician's Friend

MOD KITS DIY

Guitar Center

Yellowjackets Tube Converters

WD Music

Antique Electronics Supply

Amazon


* God bless America and our men and women in uniform *

* Illegitimi non carborundum! *

If you benefit and learn from the FDP and enjoy our site, please help support us and become a Contributing Member or make a Donation today! The FDP counts on YOU to help keep the site going with an annual contribution. It's quick and easy with PayPal. Please do it TODAY!

Chris Greene, Host & Founder

LOST YOUR PASSWORD?

......................................................................

   
FDP Jam
Calendar
Find musicians
in your area!
  Search the Forums  

FDP Forum / Moe's Tavern (_8^(I) / Why Semi Auto ?

Next 20 Messages  
jefe46
Contributing Member
**********
****

State of Jefferson

Nov 4th, 2017 06:05 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Considering the abundance of comments, evidence, and discussion about malfunctions .. why semi auto. Also , tangentially, calibers specific only to semi auto. ?

Is this because you can't pull the trigger fast enough or hold enough rounds with a revolver?

Just looking for a bit of wisdom given my experience with semi auto is a Colt Woodsman Target Match Bull barrel. and I like it a lot but prefer my Ruger revolvers.

I have been considering a semi auto (larger caliber than my .22) but aware of malfunctions that do not seem to occur with revolvers.

Appreciate any enlightenment.

PS I sold my 1915 Savage .32 ( 10 shot) semi auto. Great in the hand but like a Ferrari, fast around corners but not always reliable. ( like my ex wife)



MJB
Contributing Member
**********
**

Who's we sucka?

Smith, Wesson and me.
Nov 4th, 2017 06:15 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

The main advantages of a semi-auto are ammo capacity and speed of reloads. Extraction of spent rounds generally require different shell casing designs in semi auto vs. revolver. There are some revolvers that use the same ammo as semis, mainly in 9mm and .45ACP.

Rent some different guns at a range and see how you like them. I would suggest 9mm to start.

I have two 9mm Glocks that have never had a failure after thousands of rounds.

Leftee
Contributing Member
*******

VA

Fear the Klinkhammer
Nov 4th, 2017 06:21 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I’ve got a ‘70s Colt Huntsman. Love it!

I don’t have anything to add to this thread. :-)

FlyonNylon
Contributing Member
*

East Tennessee

Nov 4th, 2017 06:43 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Jefe in general I agree with your assessment. I have shot semi-autos where FTE or misfire is not infrequent (once a range visit) and I would not rely on that weapon for self defense. The revolver is mechanically a more sensible design for reliable firearm performance.

I'll probably buy a revolver as my next handgun (after the AR and shotgun purchases ;) however my current self-defense firearm is a Glock 17. Mainly for the reasons above: magazine capacity and speed of reload. Also have more experience with semi-autos than revolvers.

While I've had misfires using other brands of hand-guns, I've never had a FTE/misfire or any sort of misfunction shooting thousands of rounds out of a Glock 17. I've brought my wife, her mom, her younger sister, and others to the range, all inexperienced shooters, who managed to do all sorts of limp wristing and other forms of technique, shooting basement grade ammo from walmart, and it has never failed to go "boom" and rechamber a round.

BlondeStrat
Contributing Member
**********
**********
*****

Las Vegas NV

Can't complain but sometimes I still do
Nov 4th, 2017 06:50 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Another advantage to the auto loaders is trigger pull.

Single action trigger pulls are convenient.

Malfunctions are an issue when they occur, but they really don't occur very often.

The training I do includes all manner of malfunction clearance and reloading.

All five basic manipulations are part of the skills test. The test times are very quick.

The point of it is to be able to recognize the condition of the gun and fix it reflexively.

Disclaimer: Most here know I don't go to the typical range for casual target practice. All of my shooting is at Defensive Firearm Training Courses. Everything we do is done with that purpose in mind.

If you suffer a malfunction during a self defense situation on the street ... you better be able to clear it and have the gun running reflexively and in no time flat. ;)

Edited to add: We don't see a lot of revolvers at the courses, some but not a lot. You see pretty much none at the advanced courses.

(This message was last edited by BlondeStrat at 09:04 PM, Nov 4th, 2017)

EA6B

In Memory Of...

Brenden, Baby P, Karley & untold others!
Nov 4th, 2017 07:33 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Because a Beretta 93R is hard to come by.

HeavyDuty
Contributing Member
**********
*******

Northeast IL

Not very bright but does lack ambition
Nov 4th, 2017 07:51 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I honestly haven’t had a malf with any of my modern semis that couldn’t be traced back to cheap generic type range ammunition in years.

WireDog
Contributing Member
**********
***

Sunken Heights

North Carolina
Nov 4th, 2017 09:30 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Revolvers are super reliable, no doubt about that, however they do not have the volume of fire capability of a hi-cap semi-auto.

Not knowing the kind of environment you need the weapon for, I still lean towards a semi auto. For concealed carry, they are slimmer, more comfortable, and more likely to actually be there when needed. For home defense, a hi cap semi with a spare magazine or two may hold off multiple attackers.

The reality is that semi-autos do malfunction. I'ver rarely had a malfunction at a range, but my comrades who have had gunfights sported torn fingernails and slide-bite cuts on their wrists because they fired in awkward positions and while on the move. It's not hard to imagine a slide hitting your wrist while firing reflexively from a weird position while under fire, nor is it hard to imagine what that would do to cycling the next round.

BlondeStrat and his amigos, I will venture to say, train to handle these malfunctions in a series of rapid moves that they drill and rehearse until they become smooth and "automatic". It's a must to do this with a semi-auto.

For that reason, the choice of owning an always reliable revolver versus a semi has a lot to do with how willing one is to do the drilling to make a semi-auto perform in a real fight.

In the military, we always say, "Trust your equipment and trust your training." There is lots of great equipment out there, but getting the training is on the shooter.

reverendrob
FDP Data Goon
Moderator

We all want

our time in hell
Nov 4th, 2017 10:58 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Malfunction is attributable to two factors generally: operator error and poor magazines.

The modern semi-auto pistol with non-lowest-bidder magazines is blisteringly, boringly reliable.

My main Sig226 has been rebuilt from the springs and replaceable parts up several times and over 100k rounds.

It's had *one* malfunction.

It was due to a defective factory round (which had no primer pocket drilled).

This ain't the 1970s.

EA6B

In Memory Of...

Brenden, Baby P, Karley & untold others!
Nov 4th, 2017 10:58 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

A good ramp and throat job with good quality ammunition and you should be golden!

E

reverendrob
FDP Data Goon
Moderator

We all want

our time in hell
Nov 4th, 2017 11:00 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Don't need a ramp and throat on any pistol made this century that was from a major manufacturer.

K4
Contributing Member
**********
**********
**

Being defenseless

does not make you more safe
Nov 4th, 2017 11:26 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Every malfunction I see on a semi is user induced, limp wrist, or a mag issue.

Even on the semi auto rifles, mostly magazine issues.

reverendrob
FDP Data Goon
Moderator

We all want

our time in hell
Nov 5th, 2017 01:40 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Semi rifle as long as it works from the factory, I've seen my share of bum guns from the factory especially as they've gotten cheap.


ECS-3
Contributing Member
**********
**

USA / Virginia

Nov 5th, 2017 05:54 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Considering the abundance of comments, evidence, and discussion about malfunctions .. why semi auto."

Plus: higher capacity and faster reloading

Minus: More prone to malfunction, more complicated to field strip / clean, and some people with lesser hand strength cannot reliably rack the slide.

I'm not all that concerned about having the highest capacity handgun myself.


Debs
Contributing Member
********

Montana

Nov 5th, 2017 06:59 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Question. I've heard the term "limp Wrist" used by gun enthusiasts. How exactly does a limp wrist affect the way a gun functions?

MJB
Contributing Member
**********
**

Who's we sucka?

Smith, Wesson and me.
Nov 5th, 2017 07:02 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Debs, if gripped too lightly some of the energy used to move the slide back will move your wrist instead. This may cause ejection issues.

Debs
Contributing Member
********

Montana

Nov 5th, 2017 07:05 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

MJB thanks. Makes sense.

Leftee
Contributing Member
*******

VA

Fear the Klinkhammer
Nov 5th, 2017 07:17 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

The one issue I had on a SA was with my above-mentioned Huntsman.

It was experiencing FtF towards the bottom of the mag. It was the mag itself hanging up.

I have honestly never had any issues with a SA otherwise. Rifle or handgun.

No, they're still not as simple as a revolver. But they're been around over 100 years now and the good manufacturers have them down to a science.

Buy a well-regarded brand and model. Stay away from the gun show reloads. All will be well.

BlondeStrat
Contributing Member
**********
**********
*****

Las Vegas NV

Can't complain but sometimes I still do
Nov 5th, 2017 07:24 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"I've heard the term "limp Wrist" used by gun enthusiasts. How exactly does a limp wrist affect the way a gun functions?"

Another way to explain it would be: When fired the frame of the gun must remain stationary while the slide cycles.

When the frame of the gun is allowed to move along with the slide the mechanical action of ejecting the fired round and chambering the new round can not happen properly.

It's not just the shooters grip on the gun ... It's having a resistance structure behind the gun to keep that gun frame stationary as the action is cycling.

A person could squeeze the gun to death in their hand, but if the wrist, elbow, shoulder, stance in general is not providing that structural support to keep the gun stationary as it's fired ... any or all of those aspects of the shooting framework could be a problem capable of causing malfunctions.

For a novice those aspects of stance, frame and structure may be very important to avoiding malfunctions ... to a person in defensive firearms training they are critical because you need to reacquire the target (sight picture) instantly after each shot.

Disclaimer: I'd hate to have you ask the question and come out of it thinking you just need to squeeze the gun tighter in your hand. ;)

Edited to add: The method we learn includes *Isometric Tension* on the stocks of the gun ... not *squeeze tight with the hand*. Hands are actually relaxed with the support side hand pulling to the rear and the shooting hand (arm) pressing forward. Hands themselves are relaxed and the gun is locked in the vise created with this tension from the front and the rear of the stocks.

Edited again to add: I agree that the vast majority of malfunctions are operator error.

Assuming the shooter has what I just discussed under control ... I'd say the single most common problem is the magazine not being seated properly in the well. Leading to a type 1 malfunction.

Meaning slide is racked at loading (and the shooter failed to do a chamber check) or the slide cycles when shot and the action can't grab and chamber the top round in the magazine.

Next trigger pull produces only a click ... The loudest sound you ae likely to hear in a gun fight. ;)

Classic Operator Error!

(This message was last edited by BlondeStrat at 11:35 AM, Nov 6th, 2017)

K4
Contributing Member
**********
**********
**

Being defenseless

does not make you more safe
Nov 5th, 2017 07:47 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Rob, I have seen Knights SR-25's and the like malfunction from magazines. I personally will not use any Mag except for a Magpul on that platform.

Even the ridiculously expensive factory Knights mags will jam on the second to last round in the mag.

Next 20 Messages  

FDP Forum / Moe's Tavern (_8^(I) / Why Semi Auto ?




Reply to this Topic
Display my email address             Lost your password?
Your Message:
Link Address (URL):
Link Title:




Moderators: Chris Greene  Iron Man  reverendrob  

FDP, LLC Privacy Policy: Your real name, username, and email
are held in confidence and not disclosed to any third parties, sold, or
used for anything other than FDP Forum registration unless you specifically authorize disclosure.

Furtkamp.com 
Internet Application Development

Copyright © 1999-2017 Fender Discussion Page, LLC   All Rights Reserved