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FDP Forum / Moe's Tavern (_8^(I) / Any car salesman here? Can you share some secrets? Or anyone else the knows, of course.

Previous 20 Messages  
jefe46
Contributing Member
**********
****

State of Jefferson

Nov 3rd, 2017 04:41 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Exactly. There is not a car dealer on earth that will let you walk out on a deal they can do. If they let you walk, you were asking for too much."

This is true and obvious.




"Just remember, you do this every couple of years or so... and they do it every day."

They are professionals, you are an amateur.
The deck is stacked and the house always wins.

Just as there are other dealers, there are other customers.

Chris Greene
FDP Host

Idaho, USA

Nine mile skid on a ten mile ride
Nov 3rd, 2017 05:01 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Seeing as though no one wants to hear the folly of buying a new car, I won't comment... ;o)

surfdog
Contributing Member
*

Lakeside, CA

Jim
Nov 3rd, 2017 05:18 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Financing: Rule of 78 vs simple interest. Rule of 78 you pay the interest first then the principle. If you pay the loan off early for any reason the payoff will be greater than the same simple interest loan.

Simple interest is like a house loan. An amortized payment of principle a interest is made each month. The loan decreases with each payment.

For the most part car dealers use rule of 78. Credit unions and banks use simple interest. You will save money by locating a simple interest loan before talking to the dealer.

Most people don't understand rule of 78. Good idea to understand before car shopping.

larryguitar19
Contributing Member
*****

South Florida

larryguitar
Nov 3rd, 2017 05:33 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I'm with Chris. Unless you have crazy money to spend I think you do best with a 2 year old car with less than 20k mileage. The depreciation is front loaded.

Most people don't really do the math on auto ownership. Do the numbers. Cost of the car plus depreciation plus operating cost minus trade in and you get a number that makes you ill.

L.H.B.

probably working on

someones car
Nov 5th, 2017 08:30 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

what matters most is how many of car A or B is sitting on the lot and what is the demand for each car. this is usually what motivates a dealer to give you the price you want.

mroulier
Contributing Member
**********

Suburban MD.

Are your prayer beads maple or rosewood?
Nov 5th, 2017 03:32 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Read Tom McParland on Jalopnik. He runs a car-buying service and explains all the good and bad of auto dealerships!

This list includes a recent article "Watch out for Dealerships That Cater to Customers Who Don't Care About Money." Sound Familiar? Or "Here's the Problem with those 'No Haggle' dealerships." Scroll thru and pick what you need.

Provide Link Title

K4
Contributing Member
**********
**********
**

Being defenseless

does not make you more safe
Nov 5th, 2017 11:00 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

My old man was a general manager of a car dealer, trust me invoice means nothing. Dealer cost is not set in stone either. If they let you walk, they didn't make any money, if they make the deal they did.

Now in order for any business to keep the doors open they have to make a profit, that profit has to include paying people to work there.

Still we all like to get the best deal possible, the last years model still on the lot is costing more than any current year and will get the best possible deal. They may even take a loss.

End of quarter is a great time for deals and end of year is the best. They pay tax on all inventory. So December is the best time to buy.

RKSTRAT
Contributing Member
**********
***

USA

"Clapton is Good"
Nov 6th, 2017 11:33 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

A lot of great comments here....thanks!

But, what I am seeing on Edmunds, Kelly, and TrueCar, agree that a good deal on Brand B is about $4K off sticker. How much further can I research? If I wait, maybe another $1K off?

(This message was last edited by RKSTRAT at 01:34 PM, Nov 6th, 2017)

Pinetree
Moderator Emeritus
(with many stars)

NW Pennsylvania

Nov 6th, 2017 11:36 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Do you want the car or do you want a deal?




mfitz804
Contributing Member
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Staten Island, NY

Our resident rational liberal
Nov 6th, 2017 11:48 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Do you want the car or do you want a deal?"

Why not both?

If you are looking to save an extra $1,000, go to the dealership and you'll most likely be able to make that happen.

Pinetree
Moderator Emeritus
(with many stars)

NW Pennsylvania

Nov 6th, 2017 11:52 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Indeed, both would be ideal.


But, to me, it appears the OP is obsessing over the actual deal, more so than the car.



jefe46
Contributing Member
**********
****

State of Jefferson

Nov 6th, 2017 12:58 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Dealer cost is not set in stone either"


The dealer'ds invoice from the factory is the same at any other dealer of the same model.

What is not "set in stone" is any "house pack" or "dealer's additional profit" or other dealer installed items at ridiculous prices.

Also what you may never see or know about is any factory incentives to the dealer.

This is usually prompted by day's supply,, read that inventory.

Model year change and over stocking (genuine, not advertised) is the best time to buy.

One tack I take is that I deal with one salesman only... and this is what my directive is to him.. this is the vehicle I want.. when you have a screaming deal.. call me.. otherwise. I'm fine with what I have.

W

K4
Contributing Member
**********
**********
**

Being defenseless

does not make you more safe
Nov 6th, 2017 10:03 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"factory incentives to the dealer."

Is exactly what I meant by "not set in stone"


mfitz804
Contributing Member
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**********
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Staten Island, NY

Our resident rational liberal
Nov 7th, 2017 06:39 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Factory incentives to the dealer are why a dealer can sell a car below cost and still make money. The hard part is convincing them to do it!

"One tack I take is that I deal with one salesman only... and this is what my directive is to him.. this is the vehicle I want.. when you have a screaming deal.. call me.. otherwise. I'm fine with what I have. "

I took that position recently when I traded in my 2012 Passat. in truth, it had constant engine light issues and I really wanted to get rid of it. But, with them not knowing that, I was able to play the role of "I just want to switch things up if it works financially", tell them what I had to spend, and if they could do it fine, if not I'll drive off in my Passat.

The first dealer apparently didn't believe me, and I wound up doing exactly that. And, I was already compromising because it wasn't the exact vehicle I wanted.

It mostly worked at the second dealer and I was able to get pretty close to the deal I wanted to get on the exact vehicle I wanted.

jefe46
Contributing Member
**********
****

State of Jefferson

Nov 7th, 2017 06:51 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Factory incentives to the dealer are why a dealer can sell a car below cost and still make money. The hard part is convincing them to do it!"


The dealer must report the sale and the transactions details in order to get the factory incentive. This by means of what is known as an RDR / Retail Delivery Record. They do not need convincing. No documentation, no money.

Why I know this stuff.. Just FYI

District Manager Mazda Motors of America. Nor Cal, Nevada, Utah
District Manager Mitsubishi Motor Sales of America . Nor Cal, Nevada, Utah, Hawaii
District Manager Mercedes-Benz of No America Nor Cal.
Plus Natl Training positions at BMW of No America and Volvo Motors of America out of New York/New Jersey.

My responsibilities included auto distribution and monitoring factory incentive programs among others.

Add to that 11 years retail to include SCANDIA MOTORS Monterey,(Saab, Volvo)
British Motors of Monterey (Rolls, Bentley, Jag Aston Martin etc)

(This message was last edited by jefe46 at 11:12 AM, Nov 7th, 2017)

mroulier
Contributing Member
**********

Suburban MD.

Are your prayer beads maple or rosewood?
Nov 8th, 2017 06:54 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Have you visited any other dealer for Maker A or Maker B? It might be worth a trip to go further away to get a better deal, especially if you can hit a different "market". I live in DC, but Baltimore is only 45-50 miles away. I got a GREAT deal on a less than 1 year old Honda Accord at a Baltimore dealership a few years back.
Get the 'best offer' and take it to another shop and see if they can beat it... dealers aren't REQUIRED to give you the best offer right out of the gate, especially if they think it's fair enough that the next guy will take it!! All the True car searching in the world can't replace being in the building and being prepared to walk if you don't like the price. (Which is unfortunately, the worst part of car buying!)

mfitz804
Contributing Member
**********
**********
*

Staten Island, NY

Our resident rational liberal
Nov 8th, 2017 07:03 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

“The dealer must report the sale and the transactions details in order to get the factory incentive. This by means of what is known as an RDR / Retail Delivery Record. They do not need convincing. No documentation, no money. ”

You first have to successfully negotiate a price that low, THAT is what you need to convince them to do. Not everyone succeeds at negotiations.

RKSTRAT
Contributing Member
**********
***

USA

"Clapton is Good"
Nov 9th, 2017 04:30 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

So, I am still working on the deal.

Turns out they honor Costco no-haggle pricing, which is $300 over invoice. Then they added the normal incentives, so it come to nearly $5,500 off sticker. I am not a Costco member, but BJs has a similar program and they honored that membership.

One issue I have is that what they are calling the "invoice price" is higher than what I see on Kelly/Edmunds by $675. Seems they are inflating the invoice? or is Kelly/Edmunds just an estimated invoice price? Should I confront them about the apparent discrepancy?

Pinetree
Moderator Emeritus
(with many stars)

NW Pennsylvania

Nov 9th, 2017 04:38 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

From reply #2.

"Invoice is an imaginary number."




K4
Contributing Member
**********
**********
**

Being defenseless

does not make you more safe
Nov 9th, 2017 05:00 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

You can't trust the trade in amount you get either.

I remember buying a 70 RoadRunner with a hemi from the dealer I worked at for 500. The GM knew I was a Mopar nut. I asked what the dude trading thought he got for it, I was told 2000.

These types of numbers were backed up by my Dad when he was GM

Previous 20 Messages  

FDP Forum / Moe's Tavern (_8^(I) / Any car salesman here? Can you share some secrets? Or anyone else the knows, of course.




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