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FDP Forum / Miscellaneous and Non-Fender Topics / Please answer this amp question for me.

LHW

Southwest Florida

Alone in my principles
Oct 23rd, 2017 09:13 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I picked up a used (obviously) Crate V18 tube amp for a song today. I can't figure out why they put two 12" speakers in an 18 watt amp.
Please enlighten me!

Leftee
Contributing Member
*******

VA

This space intentionally left blank.
Oct 23rd, 2017 09:15 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Cuz two is one better than one.

You’re welcome.

BrentD
Contributing Member
*********

United States

Harumph.
Oct 23rd, 2017 09:18 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Maybe it's the extra 3dB you get from doubling the speakers.

If it's a clone of a Marshall 18-watt circuit, those suffer from a problem I found with Tweed Deluxes: Plenty loud most of the time but occasionally just short with a heavy hitting drummer. That extra speaker might make the difference (same as doubling the wattage).

tahitijack
Contributing Member
*

San Clemente, CA

Happy Sunsets, tahitijack
Oct 23rd, 2017 09:23 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

According to Crate 18 watts of class A power into two 12" speakers makes the perfect club/pub combo amp. They were trying for that vintage Brit Blues tone. Hope you enjoy your new amp!

LHW

Southwest Florida

Alone in my principles
Oct 23rd, 2017 11:34 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Thanks all!

Leftee
Contributing Member
*******

VA

This space intentionally left blank.
Oct 24th, 2017 09:13 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Those amps sometimes pop up on my local CL but at stupid prices. When new they were very inexpensive.

Peegoo
Contributing Member
**********
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Enjoying

the downtime
Oct 24th, 2017 10:35 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

There are perhaps five basic ways to increase the perceived volume of an amp:

1. Reduce the distance between the speaker and the audience. Duh!

2. Install more efficient speakers. Anything less than around 85dB efficiency rating is considered not too good. Anything above 92dB is considered very good. Adding +3dB creates a perceived twofold increase in volume. This means replacing a 91dB-rated speaker with a 94dB-rated unit will effectively double the perceived volume to human listeners.

3. Mic (or line out) the amp to the FOH.

4. Increase the power of the amp. Doubling the power nets about 3dB (twofold) volume increase. Note that decibels are not linear in nature; a 6dB gain does not mean a threefold volume increase.

5. Increase the number of speakers. Doubling the speakers nets about 3dB volume increase. Adding speakers will not increase amp power, but it does increase the *efficiency* of transduction of the electrical power (AC to the speaker) into acoustical power (sound from the speaker cone). In simple terms, it improves how the amp 'hooks up' to the air in the room.

Note the word "perceived" up there. This is necessary due to how sound propagates, and how sound is received and processed by human hearing.

If you want to read up on this stuff, here's a really well-written and clear analysis of just what kind of voodoo

is happening here. Click and read to get smarter!

Peegoo
Contributing Member
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Enjoying

the downtime
Oct 24th, 2017 10:38 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Those amps sometimes pop up on my local CL but at stupid prices. When new they were very inexpensive."

I think that may be due to Joe Walsh using them on a tour or two. And he always had *killer* tone.

Te 52

Laws of Physics

strictly enforced
Oct 24th, 2017 10:45 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"...Adding +3dB creates a perceived twofold increase in volume. This means replacing a 91dB-rated speaker with a 94dB-rated unit will effectively double the perceived volume to human listeners..."

Actually, +3dB is a doubling of *power*, not loudness. It takes a 10dB increase to double the apparent loudness.

+3dB is a "barely perceptible" increase in loudness, like turning your car radio up one detent on the volume knob.

shunka

Willoughby, OH , USA

I'm arrogant and a moron
Oct 24th, 2017 11:06 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Probably just me, but I think there is a different tone with two speakers than with one.

LHW

Southwest Florida

Alone in my principles
Oct 24th, 2017 12:07 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I only paid $80 for the amp, and it's in excellent condition.

LHW

Southwest Florida

Alone in my principles
Oct 24th, 2017 12:07 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

(This message was last edited by LHW at 02:08 PM, Oct 24th, 2017)

DrKev

Paris, France

It's just a guitar, not rocket science.
Oct 24th, 2017 12:26 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Here ya go!

Are two speakers lkouder than one? Tone?

Peegoo
Contributing Member
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******

Enjoying

the downtime
Oct 24th, 2017 12:31 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Probably just me, but I think there is a different tone with two speakers than with one."

That is true. Even when wired in phase, two (or more) speakers generally tend to cancel out some of the mids and upper mids.

LeftyMeister

Buckeye Country, USA

Motorcycles, Guitars, and Golf
Oct 24th, 2017 05:15 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Cuz two is one better than one."

Only if it goes to 11.

FDP Forum / Miscellaneous and Non-Fender Topics / Please answer this amp question for me.




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