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FDP Forum / Guitar Mods, Repairs, and Projects / Slight fingerboard separation......

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Cal-Woody

USA/California

Why do I keep fixing things that work?
Oct 9th, 2017 09:27 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

We did a show this weekend and my guitar got knocked over on its face. It knocked the nut loose and smashed the strings on my bridge, but was wondering if I should wick in some thin super glue into the separation then clamp it?
This is the first time I have had an incident like this, but was wondering if this is the best way to address my issue? It is my main gigging guitar and need to have it ready for our show Saturday and am truly upset about the drunk fool who had knocked it over, but he was a long time friend and didn't want to get upset with him but made him get away from the stage.
Arrrrrr....... help me if you can!
Thanks for replying and maybe help me to do this properly.
This is a first but hopefully it will be the last time we have people get close to our gear/band area.

vomer
Contributing Member
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Broke Down

in the Brassicas
Oct 9th, 2017 10:40 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Could you post a pic of the affected area? What sort of guitar is it, and is there damage to the bridge as well?

Cal-Woody

USA/California

Why do I keep fixing things that work?
Oct 9th, 2017 11:37 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

It's a Sheckter Omen 6 with Tone Pro's bridge and tail stop. I put on a bone nut.
On another forum, it was suggested that I contact the maker and ask which type of glue was used and maybe try to reactivate it with whichever type of methods or solvent type used.
I mentioned the use of thin super glue wicked into the separation or maybe some acetate to reactivate the glue, but that's when he stated calling the manufacturer to find out what was used and could maybe use their type of adhesive, but also stated that heat and clamps might work. I was thinking that additional heat might cause further separation and might not reactivate the glue.
Again, I've never had an issue like this and thought that wicking in some thin super glue might work and would also use some heat to the truss rod to help resist being stuck by the glue.
I don't want to completely separate the fretboard if I can do a spot repair.
The separation goes almost to the first fret about 3/4's of the length and appears to have no other damage. A very clean separation.
I hope this helps to define the issue.
Thanks, Woody

Te 52

Laws of Physics

strictly enforced
Oct 9th, 2017 12:18 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Is it separated on both the bass and treble sides?

The way you describe it, it sounds like the fingerboard is separated in the middle of its length but not at the ends. Correct?

If so, it sounds like the fall induced a momentary forward bow in the neck, and the extra tension on the truss rod -- which is always pushing up towards the fingerboard in the middle -- popped the board partially off. If there's a block between the truss rod and the fingerboard at around the mid-length of the rod, that may have been knocked loose too. Speculation on my part, but plausible, I think.

I would totally slack off the truss rod and see if the guitar is still playable. If so, I'd leave it that way until a proper repair can be done.

If not, I would clamp the body down and gently flex the neck forward and backward and see if that causes the separation to open and close a little. If it does, I'd squirt in some glue when the crack is more open, then release pressure on the neck and clamp.

As a side note, Rickenbacker basses are notorious for popping their fingerboards if the truss rods are tightened overzealously, so this kind of interaction between truss rods and fingerboards is not unknown.

Anyone else (wrnchbndr? Peegoo?)have insights/ideas?



Cal-Woody

USA/California

Why do I keep fixing things that work?
Oct 9th, 2017 12:46 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I'll have to reexamine the neck but so far the only damage I see is at the nut end, up to 3/4's of the length of the first fret area. I didn't look towards the middle of the neck to see if the truss rod caused any further damage to the neck, but that is a great prospective to share! I will be looking at it in a few minutes.
I talked with Sheckter's tech support and it was suggested that I use wood glue or fish glue from Stew-Mac. Alas, living in California doesn't make for an expeditious response for when you need something quick!
Thank you for indulging me and the tip on further inspection.
Woody

Te 52

Laws of Physics

strictly enforced
Oct 9th, 2017 01:25 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"...so far the only damage I see is at the nut end, up to 3/4's of the length of the first fret area..."

Oh, that's much smaller than I thought. I thought you were talking about 3/4 the length of the whole fretboard.

Fish glue and hide glue are very similar. Titebond makes a liquid hide glue that a good hardware store should have, or you can order on amazon with quick shipping (link).

click

Cal-Woody

USA/California

Why do I keep fixing things that work?
Oct 9th, 2017 02:59 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

So far what I've done is used my glue pipes and thinned out some Tite-Bond and clamped it all together with my fretting culls. I had to shim the outside edges to achieve good pressure on top of the fretboard and it seems to be working.
Hope this works out but will have to let it set for a few days and recheck my results. This was probably not the best way to do it but it was what I had. Yikes! Lol
Oh well, it's done and I'll check it out later. .....
Thanks fellas for helping out!

Peegoo
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Oct 9th, 2017 05:07 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

You did the right thing. The most you can thin Titebond with water is about 15% or so. After that, it loses its holding power.

Leave it all clamped up for at least 24 hours (if possible) to give the thing time to dry out.

(This message was last edited by Peegoo at 07:08 PM, Oct 9th, 2017)

Cal-Woody

USA/California

Why do I keep fixing things that work?
Oct 9th, 2017 06:40 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Thanks Peegoo, I'll leave it clamped for a few days and Not Tempt Fate! I have never thinned out a wood glue before, but I got it where I could syphon up the glue into one of my glue pipes and then put on one of the smaller glue wicks to get the glue along each side of the truss rod channels.
To get some separation between the fretboard and neck,I used a razor blade and just barely breached the crack, then put the glue in and after I felt like it had enough, I pulled the razor out, relaxed the truss rod and clamped it together.
Yes, I still have concerns as to how thin the glue could get, but I hope it works out. ..... Yikes!

Cal-Woody

USA/California

Why do I keep fixing things that work?
Oct 9th, 2017 06:50 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I guess that if it doesn't work out, my next experiment will be: 'Removing the fretboard'!
Because I was gluing near the headstock, the neck has a small volute which made trying to clamp it up a real pain.
I'm using a Stew-Mac screw clamp with the culls that slip onto the base with the top portion clamping down on top of the fretboard. I had to use some shims to achieve equal pressure on both sides of the fretboard and hope I got it done before the glue started setting up.
Note to self: Always check and prepare your clamping method before trying! Lol
Thanks for the affirmation as to a probable approach to my problem!

wrnchbndr
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New Jersey

I'm back with the otters again
Oct 9th, 2017 08:21 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I've seen quite a number of this type of repair and what you did is exactly what I do. I force as much titebond into the separation as I can and I use surgical tubing to clamp it together. It's always been a good solid repair.

Cal-Woody

USA/California

Why do I keep fixing things that work?
Oct 9th, 2017 10:25 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

You know, I have therapy bands and they would have been an excellent substitute for the rubber bands I didn't have!
MAN, I wish I could have thought of that when setting up for clamping down the fretboard!
Well, I'll have to keep that bit of knowledge close for the future!
Thanks for posting and all the support I/we get here. I am so appreciative, Woody

Peegoo
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Oct 10th, 2017 05:38 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

The way I force glue into tight spots is to blow it in with bursts of compressed air. I find it works well even with full-thickness glue.

You have to tape off everything you don't want glue on, and then cover the work with a rag to contain the inevitable splats when you blast it with the air.

FunkyKikuchiyo

VT

Oct 10th, 2017 12:27 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Sounds like you'll be fine.

If the truss rod isn't pulling the joint open and the separation is narrow enough, you need to do very little for clamping. As it gets larger, you can end up distorting the fingerboard plane through your clamping and it becomes more finnicky, but with 3/4", you'll be fine. Outside chance you'll have a weird fret buzz up there that you didn't before and it'll be easy to fix, but I doubt it.

When you DO need to clamp more, I like to use a rounded block for the back (Stew Mac has some they make for the fretting system, but they work great for clamping too) and a flat piece for the front. Clamp a much longer length than where the separation is and you'll avoid weirdness.

If I need to thin titebond to get into areas like that, I've found it helpful to spray some water onto the workpiece before applying the titebond straight over the wetted area. It doesn't really thin it all that much, but breaks the surface tension of the glue enough to help it wick down in. Keep working the glue, and eventually the added water content will be negligible.

Peegoo
Contributing Member
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Enjoying

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Oct 10th, 2017 01:37 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Guitar Repair Secret #237:

Not many repair techs know this one because I may have invented it :o)

A very very cool, simple, cheepo way to make a disposable caul for the back of the neck or any odd shape is to wrap a 3" x 3" x 4" block of polystyrene foam (Styrofoam) in a few layers of blue painter's tape.

The tape holds the foam together. You back the foam block with a small flat wood block between it and the clamp, and it will compress evenly and safely, conforming to the round back of the neck.

It takes quite a bit of clamping pressure to completely flatten it--way more than you need for a glue-up.

Duct tape works better than painter's tape but it's more expensive, and the adhesives in it can soften nitro finishes. If you do try the duct tape, apply some blue painter's tape over the duct taped area that makes contact with the finish.

Even better than polystyrene foam is Ethafoam (closed-cell polyethylene foam). This is the stuff that is usually translucent white, gray or pink, and doesn't crumble like Styrofoam. It's composed of teensy little air chambers that can withstand a lot of pressure. Ethafoam is a common packing material for electronics goods.

Anytime you receive Styrofoam or Ethafoam in packing, cut it into little blocks and save a few for this purpose. You'll wonder why you never thought of this before.

Ethafoam

Cal-Woody

USA/California

Why do I keep fixing things that work?
Oct 10th, 2017 02:05 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

The ethafoam looks like the stuff that is used to insulate pipes.
So, maybe you could use some pipe insulation glued to some flat wood backing. It is very dense and I think would support the neck fairly well. However, I have the Stew-Mac fretting system with the large 'C' clamp and 3 culls that support the neck and has the head piece that clamps the brass radius pieces for fretting. It's Ok but does allow for many other uses.
The only time it is an issue using this tool is always near the head stock and the body area on a set neck guitar.
I have a press that I want to have retrofitted with the chuck for the brass radius pieces. So, when I refret a neck it will be more efficient and less time consuming than always having to work the threads on the clamp style press system.

Peegoo
Contributing Member
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Enjoying

the downtime
Oct 10th, 2017 06:00 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

You can also make a series of neck cauls from four-be-two pine lumber. Face 'em with a section of old leather belt. Cheap and easy.

Peegoo
Contributing Member
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Enjoying

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Oct 10th, 2017 08:25 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

The smooth black pipe insulation is Neoprene and is pretty soft.

The grey stuff is Ethafoam. Same stuff a typical 'pool noodle' is made of.



Cal-Woody

USA/California

Why do I keep fixing things that work?
Oct 11th, 2017 09:27 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

On another screwed up note, when my guitar fell over it also smashed the saddles on the bridge and also pushed the anchor post down into the the body, very slightly, but still irks me to the core! I just put on a new bridge and it setup perfectly without any buzzes and NOW I have a bunch of crushed saddles. Grrrr, I am getting more peeved about what had happened and am just about to wring my guitar around this guy's head!
As a side note, people don't belong back stage, especially drunken fools!
Be safe out there people and keep your friends or fans, away from the stage!!! It is nice to be appreciated, but they don't need to be and shouldn't be: around your gear!
A terrible lesson learned! Totally my fault for allowing this to have happened!!!

Peegoo
Contributing Member
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Enjoying

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Oct 11th, 2017 10:50 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

This is why I never ever leave a guitar vertical (on a stand or leaning on something) when I play out. I have seen way too many guitars fall off (or get knocked off) stands to know better.

Always lay it flat, or better yet, put it in the case when not playing it.

I play a lot of jams, and it blows my mind how so many guitar players bring guitar stands and leave their guitars in traffic areas, on stands. It's like they're daring someone to accidentally bump into the thing. It's idiotic.

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FDP Forum / Guitar Mods, Repairs, and Projects / Slight fingerboard separation......




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