FDP Home Page / FDP Forum / FAQ's

The FDP is made possible by the following companies and individual members like you.
Please use the links below to show them we value their sponsorship.

Jensen Loudspeakers

Apex Tube Matching

Guitar Center

MOD KITS DIY

Amplified Parts

Antique Electronics Supply

Amazon

Sweetwater

Musician's Friend

Yellowjackets Tube Converters

WD Music


* God bless America and our men and women in uniform *

* Illegitimi non carborundum! *

If you benefit and learn from the FDP and enjoy our site, please help support us and become a Contributing Member or make a Donation today! The FDP counts on YOU to help keep the site going with an annual contribution. It's quick and easy with PayPal. Please do it TODAY!

Chris Greene, Host & Founder

LOST YOUR PASSWORD?

......................................................................

   
FDP Jam
Calendar
Find musicians
in your area!
  Search the Forums  

FDP Forum / Performer's Corner / Tony, Mackie 808S question

picnic
Contributing Member
**********
********

NJ/FLA

I like guitars and amps
Oct 3rd, 2017 09:06 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

We had a friend run sound for us at our gig on Saturday night. He's experienced at it, good player too. He brought a Yamaha powered mixer to run the mains and used my Mackie to run the 4 monitors.

The Yamaha died during the first song. Don't know why. We reconnected the 2 mains to the main inputs and ran all 4 monitors to the 2 monitor inputs. All the speakers we ran were 8 ohms.

The sound worked fine, but I am curious if we were risking the health of the Mackie. It can go down to 2 ohms per the specs. We play on the louder side, but not excessive volume.

Appreciate your comments as always

Tony Wright
Contributing Member
****

Stillwater, OK

I never met a calorie I didn't like.
Oct 3rd, 2017 11:02 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Sorry for the slow reply...busy day at work and at home. Nearly midnight and I am still doing laundry...sigh.

OK, based on your comments, you had:

MAINS, two speaker cabinets.

MONITORS, four 8 Ohm speaker cabinets.

You did not mention the Ohm rating of the mains, but NOT A PROBLEM.

Two 8 Ohm mains equals one 4 Ohm load.
(Like two single 12 with horn or two single 15 with horn...8 Ohms per cabinet times two is one 4 Ohm load.)

Two 4 Ohm main cabinets equal one 2 Ohm load.
(two dual 15 with horn cabinet rated at 4 Ohms per cabinet...times two is one 2 Ohm load.

SO...running your 808S in "main/monitor configuration...OR in stereo or even mono...you are within the specifications of your powered mixer.

The only way you can damage it would be to run your input and output so "hot" that it clipped.

The rule of thumb that I have worked under is:

If the clip light on the channel strip comes on for a split second and goes out rhythmically, it is probably the vocal mics are catching the snare or kick drum.

You should studiously avoid letting the LED meter level stay in the RED for any sustained period of time. (Meter LEDs are those green, yellow and red LEDs over by the master section of the mixer that give you a visual reference to the sound output).

MY practice is to keep it in the green...if I can raise the input gain (called "INPUT LEVEL SET" on the Mackie 808S) on a mic or instrument INTO the channel strip without clipping and then keep the channel volume level balanced with the appropriate level compared to the other sources (Proper blend of guitars, vocals, keys, etc).

Thus if I have everything at about the right volume in comparison to the other instruments...AND if the overall volume seems appropriate for the venue and music...AND if you can keep the "Level" LEDs on the LED meters in the upper "Green"...remember, you only have ONE yellow "WARNING" LED before CLIP.

But if I understood, your real question was about the Ohms load presented to your powered mixer...right?

You are fine in that regards...

walshb
Contributing Member
**********
******

Manchester, TN

12,423 Mustangs passed and counting
Oct 4th, 2017 10:24 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Picnic, so you used the 808S by itself and it worked fine for running both mains and monitors. That is great! I am just wondering how large a venue this was? And also what type of mains are you using, such as speaker size and configuration?
The reason I ask, I've owned an 808S for many years, only used it a couple of times years ago. I just purchased some JBL monitors for it and I'm not sure what type of mains to get, should I decide to go that route. Also, how large a venue might this mixer be able to accommodate, assuming a 4 PC rock band? Most venues in my area are pretty small anyway, but I'm still not sure if the Mackie would be sufficient....?

Tony Wright
Contributing Member
****

Stillwater, OK

I never met a calorie I didn't like.
Oct 5th, 2017 06:45 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

You didn't ask me, but, that has never stopped me from giving my 2 cents worth.

I have owned two of the Mackie 808 platform. One 808M and one 808S. LOVED THEM! I used them several times for small to medium clubs. (Say 50 to 75 on the small end up to around 250-300 plus and the occasional outdoor gig.)

I used these for my own band, loaned to close friends and rented to clients. Bedrock Solid! And I was NOT a Mackie fan at the time, but I needed to support 3 or 4 monitors for small venues without the hassle of a "component" system (separate mixer and effects rack and amp rack and all that "stuff").

I have used multiple mains and monitors over the years.

I used to have some CGM 1-12 monitors. (I owned eight of those babies.) The CGM112 were 8 Ohm cabinets and I strongly suggest 8 Ohm cabinets regardless of brand name for monitors.

I usually found 3 wedges adequate for the typical bar band. Two up front for string instrument performers and vocalists. One in back for the drummer, and being the bass player, I snuggled in close enough that I was comfortable without a wedge of my own. You get ONE monitor mix. If you have prima donnas in the band, you need more monitor mixes...and this would not be the best choice for that setting. Usually in larger venues, on larger stages, and outdoors, I would go ahead and add the fourth monitor.

We did not mic anything in those days that had its own stage amp, except keyboard. She tended to need some support as she did not like it that loud in her ear. (The keyboard stage amp was directly behind her.) We just lifted her volume a little to help fill.

For mains, I did a little of everything. I used some EV Force dual 15 with horn. Good sounding set up and we did not require any subwoofer, of course, the only thing in the system was vocals and her keyboards. (Come to think of it, there were a few times we took acoustic electric guitars DI...but that was pretty rare for us.)

I used several different JBL models over the years including the JRX125 (dual 15/horn) and the JRX112 and JRX115 (First generation of the JRX series as it was before the second generation was released.) I also ran a pair of JBL Eon315 passive cabinets and had a client like that rig (2 Eon315 and two CMG112) so well, he asked to rent it for a year...long story. Local guy who was a distant friend, but doing well on the Austin/DFE/KCMO/Omaha college circuits. His band had broken up and he was trying to "break back in"...eventually he succeeded and found a money backer. My system was his backup since the majority of his venues provided house sound and engineer. When I got that system back, it became MY system...good rig.

I also loved the sound of the Mackie 808 with my JBL MRX512 and MRX515 (predecessors of the JBL PRX unpowered speaker series).

I know that over the years I also used some Peavey SP-5 and a handful of cabinets that I don't recall. GOOD BOXES! BETTER POWERED MIXER!

I have on occasion run four 8 Ohm monitors and four 8 Ohm mains in some larger venues. That is two 2 Ohm loads at those gigs and we never had any problems.

Good time to note that I bought both Mackies used and did not know the use they had before I bought them (eBay and pawn shop). Rock solid!

The dual 15s/horn worked really nice on the occasions when we did run instruments thru the Mackie. Our problem with MY band was we had five singers...I was number 6. Thus we had few spare channels for instruments into the PA.

I believe that if you like the sound of a specific brand, the Mackie will make it sound slightly better than another option.

I gradually moved out of the Mackie 808 to get into the Yamaha EMX5xxx systems. WHY? More channels and more monitor mixes. I missed the 808s. But eventually, I moved into passive mixers and powered speakers and no longer miss them as much.

I really like my Mackie ProFX12 and my Mackie ProFX16 passive mixers. Simple to understand. Great sound quality. Reliable. All the characteristics I came to love with the Mackie 808.

IF you own the Mackie 808 and you already have two JBL and IF you like the JBL sound, then buy similar mains. I noticed a significant improvement in sound quality moving OUT of the first generation JBL JRX112/125 set up to the JBL MRX112 and MRX215. The sound went from good to crystal clean. I found it more musical. WHILE I HAVE NOT HEARD ANY JBL PRX400 SERIES...just don't go clubbing...I own the POWERED version of the PRX series and work with a different PRX series at my day job (theater tech in the city govt owned meeting and conference facility). I own some PRX612, but also have previously owned the PRX615 and the PRX625 and the PRX618. My supervisor liked the sound of my stuff enough that when his budget allowed, he purchased the current series at the time, the JBL PRX712, PRX725 and the PRX718XLF. VERY SWEET, but also discontinued since the most current series is the PRX800 series.

Thus, my opinion is the current PRX400 series (PRX400 ARE PASSIVE CABINETS compared to the POWERED speakers in the 500 and 600 and 700 and 800 Series of the PRX models.

If you need more bottom end and do not mind the weight, the PRX425 is probably the current mate to my MRX525s. I would also blindly endorse the PRX515 and PRX512 based on my history with them.

Is EV a good brand. You Betcha! I have nothing against any "quality brand name". I used to own a lot of Yamaha S115IV and S115V passive cabinets in my "club sound rental" inventory. On more than one occasion, some of the Yamaha were mated with my 808 inventory...sounds good!

I currently own four Yamaha DBR10 and two Yamaha DBR12 powered cabinets along with a pair of powered JBL PRX612. Both manufacturers have really good sound.

Feel free to ask any questions...

The Mackie 808S and 808M can both be configured to support a powered subwoofer by using some of the patch options. So I could describe that process BUT I already did that for FDPer "Tori" several years ago...I know most of that discussion was email and not on FDP posts, but I could probably find that LONG series of discussion in my file. I think.

Regardless of what you buy

picnic
Contributing Member
**********
********

NJ/FLA

I like guitars and amps
Oct 5th, 2017 07:31 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Walshb,

The venue was a bar, 50x150, stage was 10x20 slightly elevated. Mains were two Yamaha S115 Clubs 8 ohms and 4 Yamaha S112 Clubs 8 ohms.

Our piano player also has an 808S. Never a problem with either of our amps over 10 years of use.

This weekend is the semi-annual ClamFest jam at my picnic grounds. We are downsizing a little and going without the miced horn section. At previous jams, Gman brought his 16 channel board and a 2000 watt amp to run the mix and mains. My 808 would run the monitors, usually 6 speakers

This jam is going to be just my 808, 2 yamaha mains and the 4 yamaha monitors. If it is not enough, I have another Peavey 1200 watt powered mixer we can wire in tout suite.

Stage lineups for each song usually is singer, lots of backup singer mics, 3 guitars, bass, piano, B-3 organ. We can get loud, but it's a fun jam and the players behave.

walshb
Contributing Member
**********
******

Manchester, TN

12,423 Mustangs passed and counting
Oct 5th, 2017 10:12 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Wow, I can't tell you two how much I appreciate all this info! The most welcome and surprising is that I appear to have a great, reliable unit. Even after many many years of not being used, after hooking up the new speakers the other night and playing a couple of songs through the monitors, I was blown away at how great the sound was. And haven't found anything wrong with the Mackie so far. It's been a long time since I heard any music that sounded that good, with the possible exception of some concerts I've attended. Suddenly, I seem to have a premium home stereo, for the band room! lol
The speakers I bought are JRX212, probably bottom of the line but I still can't believe the sound. I was just planning to use them for band practice, but it sounds like, with some good mains, maybe I could get by with a couple more monitors and the Mackie. At least until we run into someone who needs their own separate mix! lol
Thanks again guys! I have a lot of research to do on some of the above mentioned items.

(This message was last edited by walshb at 12:19 PM, Oct 5th, 2017)

Tony Wright
Contributing Member
****

Stillwater, OK

I never met a calorie I didn't like.
Oct 5th, 2017 10:10 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Nothing "wrong" with the JBL JRX212 unless you are trying to use the 12 inch cabinet to reinforce a kick drum, snare, acoustic-electric guitar, harmonica, saxophone and keyboards...as well as 2 vocals. You might do better with the JRX215 (single 15 with horn and rated at 8 Ohms just like the Yamaha S115V.)

The JBL JRX and Yamaha S are very similar in quality and price and specifications for identical configuration (such as 1x15/horn or 1x12/horn or 2x15/horn).

Some like Ford, others like Chevrolet and still others are fond of Ram while even other's are big fans of the Toyota Tundra pick up. They are all similar...not identical...and the condition and price determine if they are worth the price.

Same thing as above for pick up trucks and PA gear. Value is up to the guy who is selling or taking it back.

Tony Wright
Contributing Member
****

Stillwater, OK

I never met a calorie I didn't like.
Oct 5th, 2017 10:10 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Oops!

(This message was last edited by Tony Wright at 12:11 AM, Oct 6th, 2017)

Tony Wright
Contributing Member
****

Stillwater, OK

I never met a calorie I didn't like.
Oct 5th, 2017 10:10 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

OK, falling asleep while typing a response...well, that just ain't the Cowboy Way.

To quote myself..."Sorry".

(This message was last edited by Tony Wright at 12:13 AM, Oct 6th, 2017)

walshb
Contributing Member
**********
******

Manchester, TN

12,423 Mustangs passed and counting
Oct 6th, 2017 08:18 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Lol! Thanks for the additional info. I'm not currently in a band, but am planning a 4 pc classic rock band and at least needed monitors for practice. (Also just to play along with music in my band room.) The remaining equipment required will depend on who else ends up being in the band, therefore I don't know if I'll have to purchase mains, or not.
I believe these monitors will suffice for now, I may purchase 2 more in the future if necessary. Or maybe 2 JRX215's? The JRX215's would work for mains, wouldn't they?


Peegoo
Contributing Member
**********
**********
******

Enjoying

the downtime
Oct 6th, 2017 08:47 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

One of the huge pluses of the 808 series is the compressor option on each channel: it allows you to get loud and stay clean, while helping the Class-D power amps stay cool. Heat is the number one failure mode for most electronic devices.

walshb
Contributing Member
**********
******

Manchester, TN

12,423 Mustangs passed and counting
Oct 6th, 2017 10:17 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Thanks Peegoo! I didn't even realize it had this function. I'll have to look into that and try it out!

Tony Wright
Contributing Member
****

Stillwater, OK

I never met a calorie I didn't like.
Oct 6th, 2017 11:43 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I don't recall a compression feature on the original Mackie 808M and 808S models that I owned. I know they upgraded the platform several times after the models that I owned were discontinued.

I have compression on my Mackie ProFX16 passive mixer and I like it well enough. I wish I had more input channels (it has 4, I would prefer more).

The current Mackie "PPM" production powered mixers (PPM608; PPM 1008; and PPM1012; ALL have on board, single control compression.

UNFORTUNATELY, the current PPM series does NOT offer 2 Ohm capability on the Mackie powered mixers. They are rated for 8 Ohm and 4 Ohm. They will not support a 2 Ohm load like the earlier models of the Mackie 808s and the Mackie 808m.

Tony Wright
Contributing Member
****

Stillwater, OK

I never met a calorie I didn't like.
Oct 6th, 2017 12:06 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

The nice thing about speakers....they have NO IDEA that they are MONITORS or MAINS.

They just know the shape of the box lets them lay down or stand up. Mains that are square boxes do not lay on their side. But monitors can be used as main or monitors by simply plugging into a different output jack on the mixer...or power amp when using a passive mixer and passive speaker.

Mains with trapezoidal cabinets can be used as horizontal monitors...usually, I found it to be helpful to put an audio log under the bottom of a horizontal trapezoid cabinet being used as a monitor. (Definition for "audio log". An Audio Log is a piece of 2x4 painted black to help increase the angle the "trapezoid cabinet" more so that the speaker is facing the ears of the performer.)

Every cabinet I own currently has a monitor slant on one side and a more conventional shape on the opposite side. The sound coming out is whatever you elect when choosing your output jack on the passive mixer and amplifier or powered mixer as the case may be.

(Obviously, you would not want to come out of a power amp into a powered speaker, but if we have to put health risk warnings such as razor blade may cut flesh and similar warnings on other obvious risks, then maybe I need to warn for that obvious potential risk...powered signal from amp into a powered mixer...as well.)

picnic
Contributing Member
**********
********

NJ/FLA

I like guitars and amps
Oct 6th, 2017 03:01 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Audio Log"

MacGuyver's definition

Any object that can elevate the angle of a speaker's baffle to project more directly into the vocalist's face.

This MacGuyver has found that in a pinch, a couple of ashtrays, rock glasses, shoes from my car, our singer's harp case (with the harps still inside) a roll of toilet paper from the men's room or a couple of rocks from the parking lot can be used as substitutes.

Think on the fly and ask, What would MacGuyver do?

Tony Wright
Contributing Member
****

Stillwater, OK

I never met a calorie I didn't like.
Oct 6th, 2017 03:27 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Ahhh...Picnic is wise beyond his years, Grasshopper.

walshb
Contributing Member
**********
******

Manchester, TN

12,423 Mustangs passed and counting
Oct 7th, 2017 12:00 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Well, I don't see any compressor knobs or buttons on the 808S, but did see some on other Mackie models, possibly newer ones.
Got the music room all rearranged this morning, with the PA set up, a mic on my Marshall amp, an mp3 player hooked up to the Mackie to play some music....and had a blast wearing out my fingers! It's really nice to have some loud music to jam along with again, been a long time.
Now I just have to find a drummer, one with some main speakers would be nice! ;)
And no Tony, I won't be hooking up powered speakers to the Mackie! ;)

Tony Wright
Contributing Member
****

Stillwater, OK

I never met a calorie I didn't like.
Oct 7th, 2017 12:05 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

And...walshb is also wise beyond his years, Grasshopper.

FDP Forum / Performer's Corner / Tony, Mackie 808S question




Reply to this Topic
Display my email address             Lost your password?
Your Message:
Link Address (URL):
Link Title:




Moderators: Chris Greene  Iron Man  reverendrob  

FDP, LLC Privacy Policy: Your real name, username, and email
are held in confidence and not disclosed to any third parties, sold, or
used for anything other than FDP Forum registration unless you specifically authorize disclosure.

Furtkamp.com 
Internet Application Development

Copyright © 1999-2017 Fender Discussion Page, LLC   All Rights Reserved