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stratluvr
Contributing Member
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Alcohol- Because No

Good Story Ever Started by Drinking Milk
Oct 2nd, 2017 03:09 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Hopefully we will learn something but if the truth doesn't fit the narrative, we won't. It is such a horrendous tragedy that it is just inexplicable as to what sort of deranged person does this.

On a side note, the gun fire that you hear in the recordings sounds like those hand cranks that you fit to the trigger. What say You. It doesn't truly sound like a true full auto rifle.

Chris Greene
FDP Host

Idaho, USA

Nine mile skid on a ten mile ride
Oct 2nd, 2017 03:10 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

A couple of gun folks have said that it was likely a trigger crank/bump fire device. Full auto weapons are ridiculously expensive and the legal means to acquire them are ponderous.

NoSoapRadio
Contributing Member
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Mass., Amerika

CO2 ... is there anything it can't do?
Oct 2nd, 2017 03:15 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"One thing for sure, we will never get the full truth of this incident just as we never have for any major event."

I know -- it's maddening. We are being told that 58 people have died in a mass shooting -- but we'll probably never know how many of those were actually shot or were trampled to death in the resulting chaos. It makes no difference to the victims or families, but it is valuable information when we consider options in the event we are faced with future attacks.

I am, probably futilely, hoping for some honesty.

Leftee
Contributing Member
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VA

One foot on the brake, one on the GAS
Oct 2nd, 2017 03:20 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I think the honesty will be hopelessly clouded by agenda.

Pick an agenda.

mfitz804
Contributing Member
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Staten Island, NY

Godzilla the Thread Killa
Oct 2nd, 2017 03:41 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Whether or not his weapon was automatic, semi automatic, not automatic, or some combination of the three, it is a relevant to me. He still used it to fire into a crowd of 22,000 people. I would be interested to know, just to know, but it would not change my assessment of the situation in the slightest.

I know the same cannot be true of the anti-gun people, who probably want to show that this guy had automatic weapons. So I guess I’m not anti-gun.

tiller2
Contributing Member
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Washington DC

Oct 2nd, 2017 03:49 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Whatever he was doing, we should try to make harder to do. We should be able to agree on the need to save lives from either armed crazies or terrorists. And if we can find a reasonably fulsome "truth" about the Vietnam War, the space shuttle explosions, and other crimes and disasters, we should be able to learn most of the nuances of this one.

saturn
Contributing Member
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Back In The UK!

Swinging The Lead
Oct 2nd, 2017 03:51 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

It certainly puts ideas into people's heads.

Unfortunate as that is.

Some reports suggest the guy was fairly affluent, in that event I imagine he could get hold of whatever he needed, legally or not.

Other reports say he had a background of psychological issues, was a recent divorcee and his father was on the FBI's most wanted list. Hopefully, were that true, these might raise red flags with the authorities that might prompt a query/review of his rights.

Regardless, reports are he had at least ten or more guns with him. It only takes one. How on earth you approach keeping guns out or the wrong hands, or removing them when someone 'turns' is anyone's guess. Are we all to be at the whim of mental breakdowns?

It is. though, completely impossible to defend even 80% against this kind of attack, short of hyping up security everywhere to completely impractical levels.



Ultimately, I feel at this point, given the information we have, there was nothing anyone could really do about this.

If what I have read is true regarding his mental state, perhaps NSR is right, and someone could have reported him, if they were close to him. Apparently he was a loner of some description though.




(This message was last edited by saturn at 06:42 PM, Oct 2nd, 2017)

Leftee
Contributing Member
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VA

One foot on the brake, one on the GAS
Oct 2nd, 2017 03:58 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

My opinion is that this is more about mental health than guns.

He could have loaded up a rental truck with ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel and set it off on the strip beside the concert. The death toll would be in the hundreds. Or higher.

K4
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USA

Fat people are hard to kidnap
Oct 2nd, 2017 04:04 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

It's not the tool, it is the person.

Electron

Undiscover'd country

from whose bourn no traveller returns.
Oct 2nd, 2017 04:09 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"If we really want to stop this madness, we need to know all the facts to understand why this guy thought this was a good option."

Maybe, but I think knowing every possible fact related to this killing wouldn't get us one step closer to knowing why.

Chris Greene
FDP Host

Idaho, USA

Nine mile skid on a ten mile ride
Oct 2nd, 2017 04:13 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

If you want this thread to stay open, don't even hint at gun control. We can discuss the events and what made this person do what he did but he did the crime (or someone else in a far more nefarious scenario). Leave the gun control stuff out of this, please. We already have thousands of gun laws and required background checks to legally purchase firearms.

j!mi
Contributing Member
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NNJ

Sometimes you feel like a nut. . .
Oct 2nd, 2017 04:49 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I watched Anthony Bourdain "Parts Unknown" Sunday night. It was on Singapore. In between bowls of noodles he talked to the locals about life there. They seemed to have traded freedoms for security and are for the most part happy with that choice. We have already done this in a more limited way, but it appears we will have choices to make in the future. I guess it's all a matter of degree but is food for thought.

Modbus

USA

Oct 2nd, 2017 04:52 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"My opinion is that this is more about mental health than guns."

It seems like anyone crazy enough to do such an act would have a very difficult time making it to 64 years old and looking as "normal" as that guy did -- retired accountant, pilot's license, LTR relationship, nice house in a retirement community, etc.

It seems like for all the other nutjobs out there, their inherent "offness" gets sussed out to those who know them way, way before senior citizenship.

I sure as hell can't figure this out.

(This message was last edited by Modbus at 06:53 PM, Oct 2nd, 2017)

Chris Greene
FDP Host

Idaho, USA

Nine mile skid on a ten mile ride
Oct 2nd, 2017 04:53 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I've read some reports that say this guy was actually wealthy with 3-4 homes elsewhere. None of this makes a lot of sense (and it may never).

saturn
Contributing Member
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Back In The UK!

Swinging The Lead
Oct 2nd, 2017 04:56 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I alluded to this. It seems he was a genuine 'lone wolf', but with some indications.

This is a very hard thing to counter. Probably the most effective methodology, and one I am fearful will be adopted by terrorists.

K4
Contributing Member
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USA

Fat people are hard to kidnap
Oct 2nd, 2017 04:59 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Right now I'm thinking this was a normal person who wanted to be remembered in history.

To be infamous

No way to defend against that.

Chris Greene
FDP Host

Idaho, USA

Nine mile skid on a ten mile ride
Oct 2nd, 2017 05:03 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I'd love to be remembered too but "normal" people don't commit mass murder for any reason.

Leftee
Contributing Member
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VA

One foot on the brake, one on the GAS
Oct 2nd, 2017 05:09 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

“It seems like anyone crazy enough to do such an act would have a very difficult time making it to 64 years old and looking as "normal" as that guy did -- retired accountant, pilot's license, LTR relationship, nice house in a retirement community, etc.”

A psychopath/sociopath could.

K4
Contributing Member
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USA

Fat people are hard to kidnap
Oct 2nd, 2017 05:12 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

When I said normal I ment, normal appearing.


Guitar Fool
Contributing Member
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Sunshine State

Just a pawn in someone else's game
Oct 2nd, 2017 05:14 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I don't think I will ever be able to understand what possess someone to do this....

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