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FDP Forum / Moe's Tavern (_8^(I) / rip Hef

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mfitz804
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Staten Island, NY

Godzilla the Thread Killa
Sep 28th, 2017 09:03 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

“By "CG" I take it that you mean Chris Greene.“

You take it correctly. Dude obviously had a bidet, etc.

Guitar Fool
Contributing Member
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Sunshine State

Just a pawn in someone else's game
Sep 28th, 2017 09:07 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Sleaze bag. He demeaned women, made them objects and then tried to make it acceptable"

only because the women let him...
so who's worse?.. a sleaze or a gold digger?

I don't necessarily disagree with your statement...but it's a 2 way street...

Chris Greene
FDP Host

Idaho, USA

Insert clever tagline here
Sep 28th, 2017 09:40 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Speaking ill of the dead. That says something too.

hushnel
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North Florida

A Friend of Bill W.
Sep 28th, 2017 09:58 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"A man who objectified women." sure to a degree, but not to the extent the competing publications printed at the time. Reading the articles about these women often left me thinking they were intelligent as well as beautiful, a lot of collage girls I recall.

The window for a woman to take advantage of that part of her life, if she is gifted that way, is rather short and it seems many of these beautiful, talented and intelligent ladies took good advantage of that and prospered. Some launching careers.

He kind of brought it out of the gutter, creating photographing of physical beauty a kind of art.

Men like to see beautiful women and beautiful women like to be seen. It's all birds and bees stuff "o) we're programed that way. Huge just did it with class.

willie
Contributing Member
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Too Near Atlanta GA

Amp Tech Emeritus
Sep 28th, 2017 10:11 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

While Mr. Hefner could well be termed a hedonist along with a few other descriptive terms, I hardly believe we can lay the downfall of "family values" at the fallen feet of Mr. Hefner. I will remember him as a tireless innovator that loosened up our culture to the subject of sexuality when it needed it. Like often occurs, others managed to distort the concept he created and expanded it into something often ugly and obscene at times.

For the most part, Hefner's productions and publications were mild in comparison to the over the top and classless efforts of others that tended to not only cross the boundaries of class. but pretty much obliterated them.

w

neilp
Contributing Member
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Austin TX

Sep 28th, 2017 10:33 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I am not suggesting he was the worst offender, but perhaps an early one who paved the way for others, with even poorer values, that followed.

Speaking ill of someone who had such poor values gives me no cause for concern. None at all. Should one defend dictators, child abusers and murders just because they are dead? Immorality is what is. He at least stood up for his "values" and could be seen for what he was by all. The fact I choose to call him on it makes me a bad guy?



rok-a-bill-e
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Nashville,USA

Clawhammer Rules!
Sep 28th, 2017 10:37 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Hef profited by bringing into the daylight how men already felt about women and sex. He didn't invent the girlie mag but he was the first to try and make it respectable. He did not apologize to mainstream culture for openly enjoying his sexuality. He championed the idea that the customer for his publication was educated, successful, and sophisticated. He did not accept the moral hypocrisy that was so prevalent when he began publication.


Chris Greene
FDP Host

Idaho, USA

Insert clever tagline here
Sep 28th, 2017 10:39 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Oh, so now you're equating Hefner to dictators, child abusers, and murders [sic]? You are the judge of morality in this world? What you post says much about you and little about the person you're trying to demean.

(This message was last edited by Chris Greene at 12:42 PM, Sep 28th, 2017)

neilp
Contributing Member
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Austin TX

Sep 28th, 2017 10:45 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I'm saying that judging morality post-death is acceptable practice. We all do it, no need to castigate me.

I think what we all post says a lot. I stand by my posts - I don't think Hefner's treatment of women was acceptable.

Chris Greene
FDP Host

Idaho, USA

Insert clever tagline here
Sep 28th, 2017 10:49 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

But it's OK for you to castigate Hefner after he's died.

neilp
Contributing Member
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Austin TX

Sep 28th, 2017 10:56 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I pointed out his immorality and poor treatment of women. I think that was appropriate as it had not been mentioned in this thread.

And yes, I do think that's OK. As I noted we all point out dead peoples' immorality all the time.



Chris Greene
FDP Host

Idaho, USA

Insert clever tagline here
Sep 28th, 2017 10:57 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

You are who you are.

neilp
Contributing Member
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Austin TX

Sep 28th, 2017 11:00 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Tho' much is taken, much abides..."

rok-a-bill-e
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Nashville,USA

Clawhammer Rules!
Sep 28th, 2017 11:02 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

While I disagree with neil's main point, I do have to agree with him on the speaking of the dead thing. We talk about everyone, living or dead, I just don't see the issue that the moment someone dies then they are now immune to criticism.
I've always heard "don't speak ill of the dead" but I've never bought in to it. I mean, it's not like Hef would respond here to defend himself even if still alive!

neilp
Contributing Member
**********

Austin TX

Sep 28th, 2017 11:13 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Thank you Rok. One of the great things about the FDP is the ability to disagree like gentlemen.

You're still wrong about Hefner though ; -)

NoSoapRadio
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Mass., Amerika

CO2 ... is there anything it can't do?
Sep 28th, 2017 11:23 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

There has been pron ever since the first guy learned how to draw. There have been depictions of people doing the nasty found in Egyptian temples and pyramids, Roman frescoes, and ancient Greek pottery.

Historian Bettany Hughes, loves to talk about folks doing the wild thing back when even Zeus was a boy.

Hef didn't invent anything -- he just did it better than anyone else had done it before.

To be honest, I enjoyed the stereo reviews and full color ads of the latest equipment almost as much as those other pictures.

RIP Hef -- I don't know where you're going now -- you've already spent the past sixty years in heaven.

L.H.B.

probably working on

someones car
Sep 28th, 2017 11:23 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

hey neilp and the others vilifying Hefner- news flash: women objectify themselves. If he is so bad then why are all those women crowded into his mansion of their own free will?

Chris Greene
FDP Host

Idaho, USA

Insert clever tagline here
Sep 28th, 2017 11:26 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"hey neilp and the others vilifying Hefner- news flash: women objectify themselves. If he is so bad then why are all those women crowded into his mansion of their own free will?"

Oops. ;o)

neilp
Contributing Member
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Austin TX

Sep 28th, 2017 11:36 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"hey neilp and the others vilifying Hefner- news flash: women objectify themselves. If he is so bad then why are all those women crowded into his mansion of their own free will?"

That really isn't the point now is it?

While I agree that the women directly involved are there of their own free will it's the societal impact I am talking about. There will always be a few willing to sell their morals to the highest bidder.

The impact on society I speak of:

- men who think it's ok to wolf whistle at women in the street.

- bill boards for totally unrelated items that have almost naked (skinny) women on them. Why is that ok? How do women really feel about that?

- the airbrush / paint shop world of women's body image that we now live in.

I don't blame Hefner for any of these directly, just for helping society along the path that made these things acceptable to many. I do not find them so. I know I am in the minority, especially on the FDP where I suspect any feminist leanings are kinda rare!

I do apologize for getting the thread of track a bit!

littleuch
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Florida

Sep 28th, 2017 11:37 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I will opine that when someone like Madonna objectifies themselves it's a you-go-girl-athon.

And our rock and roll heros? I'm betting more than half of them engaged in criminal sexual conduct, and certainly lived the hedonistic lifestyle. Maybe the pipe and pajamas makes it easier to vilify.



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FDP Forum / Moe's Tavern (_8^(I) / rip Hef





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