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FDP Forum / Moe's Tavern (_8^(I) / Robbery suspect may sue Good-Samaritan who subdued him. (w/video)

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NoSoapRadio
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Mass., Amerika

CO2 ... is there anything it can't do?
Sep 20th, 2017 09:08 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

What is a guy with cojones doing in a Starbucks?

Good luck to the guy. If I did that in my state, *I'd* be the one in jail.

j!mi
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NNJ

and meanwhile, I'm still thinkin' . . .
Sep 20th, 2017 09:48 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Was the coffee too hot? Oh no, that’s McDonalds.

BlondeStrat
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Las Vegas NV

Can't complain but sometimes I still do
Sep 20th, 2017 10:42 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

There is always this one ...

Robber suffers injuries from fall

stratcat_4760
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Atchafalaya Basin

South Louisiana
Sep 20th, 2017 10:57 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Posting headlines like this:
(link from the story)
>>["Java justice: Starbucks customer attacks armed robber"]

customer attacks robber????
attacks?





BS




NoSoapRadio
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Mass., Amerika

CO2 ... is there anything it can't do?
Sep 20th, 2017 10:59 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

^^ That's funny right there (injury from a fall).

(This message was last edited by NoSoapRadio at 01:00 PM, Sep 20th, 2017)

mfitz804
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Staten Island, NY

Godzilla the Thread Killa
Sep 20th, 2017 01:45 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

1) Dude gets extra points for committing robbery in an Optimus Prime mask.

2) Dude loses said points for getting his butt kicked while wearing an Optimus Prime mask.

3) California allows you to use only that degree of force necessary to stop a threat if you wish to claim self defense.

If its me on the jury, if a guy has a gun and a knife, whapping him with a chair and choking him out seem like a reasonable amount of force to use. I don't know how California courts go, but I'm hard pressed to figure out what level of force would be "unnecessary" if one has a gun. He could have shot the clerk or anyone in that store in a split second. In that situation, I don't care what you do, whatever force you use is fine with me, because short of extreme measures, everyone is still in danger.

NSR: I am sure you know better than me, but my limited knowledge of MA self defense law states that you can use deadly force when faced with the risk of serious harm or death, and having a gun involved is one of those situations. Very similar to New York. Why do you think you'd be the one in jail, is it different in practice than its written?



NoSoapRadio
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Mass., Amerika

CO2 ... is there anything it can't do?
Sep 20th, 2017 03:52 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Why do you think you'd be the one in jail, is it different in practice than its written?"

Mike,

First, the self defense laws in MA lean toward events within the home or on your property.

Second, looking at the vid, I don't see a case for self defense. The guy walked in on a felony in progress -- he could just as easily walked away. MA law doesn't not explicitly allow us to come to the defense of a random citizen outside the home.

Third, the guy as it turns out, was using a toy gun. The Good Sam had no way of knowing this -- but the dirtbag prosecutor won't give a crap.

Our states are more sympathetic to criminals because that's where the votes are.

Google Dr. Astrid Desrosiers -- she was attacked by a knife wielding mental patient. An off duty security guard who had a valid gun permit put the perp down. It took him almost a year to get all the charges against him dismissed.

I'd post a link but Google has conveniently suppressed the coverage of his trials.

mfitz804
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Staten Island, NY

Godzilla the Thread Killa
Sep 20th, 2017 04:16 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Ahhh, Mass. law does NOT extend self defense to the defense of others as they do here in NY. That sucks.

I'm in favor of all robbers being smacked in the head with a chair, personally.

Peegoo
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Deus

ex Machina
Sep 20th, 2017 04:25 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

The only time you're allowed to shoot someone in MD *not* in self defense is if a perp is attempting to kill, rape, or kidnap another person. Everything else is a no-go. An armed robbery is not attempted merr-derr.

rok-a-bill-e
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Nashville,USA

Clawhammer Rules!
Sep 20th, 2017 04:29 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I am glad that SB cleared up just who was robbing who!
Being a Good Sam is risky. This guy got stabbed and now sued, and he could have left and called the cops. I'm sure that he had no intention of stabbing the guy multiple times but that's just it; when you start something like that you can't control just where it's going to go and how it's going to turn out. Needs to be a have-to situation in my book.

super400
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Snohomish WA USA

Look at Them Beans!
Sep 20th, 2017 05:12 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Personally, I would not support any action against the good Samaritan whatsoever. In addition, I would not jeopardize my health to help save a Starbucks register till. However, as noted above, the perp could have quickly and easily ended an employees life. So...

Viva The Good Samaritan.

009
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USA

Sep 20th, 2017 05:27 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

'Flores’ mother, told KSEE-TV. "Stabbing somebody that many times, it doesn't take that many stab wounds to get somebody to succumb to you."'

.....well, obviously it does (did)....

The robber brought and introduced the knife to the scene; there won't be any sympathy from a jury, but rather a feeling that "he got what he [the robber] deserved."

BbendFender
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American Patriot

About as ordinary as you can get.
Sep 21st, 2017 08:16 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I know the customer didn't have a gun but in most cases it would be better to simply shoot the robber.
I have my CHL and also have Texas Law Shield for legal protection. If you shoot a robber, burglar or intruder, the family will sue you

Steve M
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USA

Sep 22nd, 2017 05:03 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

That guy deserves a medal, not a lawsuit.

Extra points for taking the perp down without losing his flip flops/

Jake
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West Chester PA

Wait, what?
Sep 22nd, 2017 09:07 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"California allows you to use only that degree of force necessary to stop a threat if you wish to claim self defense."

To me this means that they must no longer have the initiative, i.e., they are now the ones on the "defensive".

mfitz804
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Staten Island, NY

Godzilla the Thread Killa
Sep 22nd, 2017 09:14 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Yeah the chair and the takedown I could say were self defense. If he took the guy’s knife and stabbed him with it, that was extracurricular activity. I guess.

I mean he had a gun, real or not it was still a “threat” if the guy didn’t realize it was a fake.

I’d still give him a pass on the famous legal theory known as “screw that guy”. He tried to commit a felony with a weapon, knife or gun. Screw him!!!

littleuch
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Florida

Sep 22nd, 2017 09:27 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Just a guess, but I'm betting good Samaritan didn't wake up that morning thinking "I need a Starbucks and to kill someone today". This felon put him in that position. Now, I don't think I'd come at a dude with a chair if he was waving a gun (unless I could spot that it was fake). Once engaged,the bad guy could have retreated, why put that responsibility on the GS? He didnt, and he got a little extra ventilation.

I say give the guy a lifetime free coffee card at Starbucks.

(This message was last edited by littleuch at 11:28 AM, Sep 22nd, 2017)

mfitz804
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Staten Island, NY

Godzilla the Thread Killa
Sep 22nd, 2017 01:51 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I honestly don't have a problem with that. the rule should be, in my opinion, that in that situation you get what you get. You make a choice to commit a violent felony (or a felony with the threat of violence, more accurately), you're putting yourself out there.

It may be the exact wrong thing for a GS to do because they may end up getting killed where the guy had no intention of killing anyone, but if they do and they prevail, let them walk. Guys would think twice about that kind of stuff.

And I agree, littleuch, that if he had a gun I would not have attacked. I have twice successfully fended off an attacker with a knife, but those guys were coming right at me and I had no choice. Had I a choice, I am not sure I'd brain the dude with a chair either.

Taildragger
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USA

"toxic masculinity personified"
Sep 23rd, 2017 09:04 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

This about sums it...

...up:

larryguitar19
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South Florida

larryguitar
Sep 23rd, 2017 09:27 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

These kinds of stories pop up from time to time. It's really an old narrative calculated to stimulate outrage. We should resist it.

The reality is anybody with $400 can file a lawsuit. That doesn't mean it goes anywhere. And good luck with a jury. I have declined perfectly good cases because my client 'does not present well'.

This goes to our shared deeper sense of the occasional injustice of 'no good deed goes unpunished' and we get a burr in our saddle.

(This message was last edited by larryguitar19 at 06:07 PM, Sep 23rd, 2017)

Previous 20 Messages  

FDP Forum / Moe's Tavern (_8^(I) / Robbery suspect may sue Good-Samaritan who subdued him. (w/video)




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