FDP Home Page / FDP Forum / FAQ's

The FDP is made possible by the following companies and individual members like you.
Please use the links below to show them we value their sponsorship.

Guitar Center

Musician's Friend

Amplified Parts

Sweetwater

WD Music

Amazon

Jensen Loudspeakers

Apex Tube Matching

MOD KITS DIY

Antique Electronics Supply

Yellowjackets Tube Converters


* God bless America and our men and women in uniform *

* Illegitimi non carborundum! *

If you benefit and learn from the FDP and enjoy our site, please help support us and become a Contributing Member or make a Donation today! The FDP counts on YOU to help keep the site going with an annual contribution. It's quick and easy with PayPal. Please do it TODAY!

Chris Greene, Host & Founder

LOST YOUR PASSWORD?

......................................................................

   
FDP Jam
Calendar
Find musicians
in your area!
  Search the Forums  

FDP Forum / Miscellaneous and Non-Fender Topics / How does "hand-wired" improve tone?

Previous 20 Messages  
FunkyKikuchiyo

VT

Oct 15th, 2017 09:21 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"I'm waiting for the "leaded solder" snobs myself."

They exist in the department of defense! That is why the stuff is still legal and available in the States. They don't trust RoHS for nukes.

Peegoo
Contributing Member
**********
**********
******

Enjoying

the downtime
Oct 15th, 2017 09:31 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Ken Fischer of Trainwreck amps fame (R.I.P. brother) claimed that copper, silver, and other metal wire had an inherent polarity: DC current flowed better one way than the other.

Ken was a great circuit engineer, but that is a little too 'foil helmet and 37 cats' compared to what I know about electromechanics.

willie
Contributing Member
********

Too Near Atlanta GA

Amp Tech Emeritus
Oct 15th, 2017 09:33 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Thanks Peegoo for imaging what true PTP wiring is versus Tag and Turret board construction. I'm always amazed at how many don't know the difference. Of course, the manufacturers are much to blame for this as they love to tout their PTP construction when in actuality it's usually tag board or turret board. You are also most correct in pointing out the increased difficulty of servicing true PTP circuitry as it is what I trained on early on and still experience it in older amps and older radio gear. In most cases a complex PTP circuit is far more difficult to troubleshoot and repair than a modern PCB circuit of the same level or greater complexity.

willie

DrKev

Paris, France

It's just a guitar, not rocket science.
Oct 15th, 2017 09:57 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Re: polarity of wire, yes, that's not real science. It does surprise me how otherwise smart and expert people can get basic stuff not-even-wrong.

Lindsey Fralin, of Fralin pickups says that treble bleed mod affects tone even when the volume pot is on 10. Mother nature and her electrons disagree but there ya go.

stratcowboy
Contributing Member
**********
**

USA/Taos, NM

Oct 15th, 2017 10:23 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Lindy Fralin.

littleuch
Contributing Member
**********
******

Florida

I'm not as clever as my dog thinks
Oct 15th, 2017 10:28 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Fortunately there are people who subscribe to bad science and voodoo that despite all, make a good product.

ejm

usa

Oct 15th, 2017 10:49 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Alexander Howard Dumble also talked about something called "circuit constants" in an old GP interview.

I'd never heard of it and still don't know what he's talking about.

You certainly can't argue with the success of Fischer and Dumble, but sometimes I wonder.


FunkyKikuchiyo

VT

Oct 15th, 2017 02:37 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Fortunately there are people who subscribe to bad science and voodoo that despite all, make a good product."

My experience is that many people in the music business get very, very good at figuring out "if you do A, B or C, this happens", and be alarmingly accurate about what is really happening. Years and years of experimenting and critical listening will really add up to something special.

When asked WHY certain conditions yield certain results, that is when the pseudo-science kicks in. They piece it together in whatever way makes sense to them at the time, but it often is quite silly. So, they're excellent data collectors and experimenters, but not always the best theorists.

The problem is when someone from an engineering pedigree comes in and tries to figure it out. They unfortunately dismiss decades and decades of work because the explanations seem sloppy. The lack of mutual respect is more than a little annoying at times, but I digress...

rockstar_not

USA

Thank God for guitars!
Oct 15th, 2017 06:13 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

One thing not mentioned yet is that PCB desIGN depends on signal routing know how to avoid crosstalk on the board. Just as much as taking care to properly shield and route individual wires for a non pc board circuit. The points about care being taken with something marketed as hand wired should include proper signal routing.

Doc Sarvis
Contributing Member
**********
********

USA/Salt Lake City

Tuned Strings and Tight Lines
Oct 15th, 2017 06:26 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Hand-wired board is cooler. PCB is consistent but boring, yawn. Yeah the tone between them is comparable but the nod goes to hand-wired for me because I can work on them. The thought of working on a PCB makes me shudder.

LeftyMeister

Buckeye Country, USA

Motorcycles, Guitars, and Golf
Oct 15th, 2017 07:22 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Ken Fischer of Trainwreck amps fame (R.I.P. brother) claimed that copper, silver, and other metal wire had an inherent polarity: DC current flowed better one way than the other.

Ken was a great circuit engineer, but that is a little too 'foil helmet and 37 cats' compared to what I know about electromechanics."

That's only true if capacitive coupling already exists from parallel fields.

Itchy
Contributing Member
*

Orlando, FL

My brain hurts!
Oct 15th, 2017 09:58 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I have PCB stuff such as a Blues Junior and a Champion 600. Great little amps but there are things about PCB amp designs that could be done smarter - one thing that stands out specifically, input jacks should never be soldered directly to a board, ever.

I bought a 63 reissue reverb unit a while back. Tonally it was pretty comparable to "real deal" 60's units and I figured the new one was cheaper, and being virtually new, more reliable. Could not have been more wrong - it was a nightmare of gremlins. The thin molded RCA send/return cables were junk, those crapped out first. Then the power transformer went. After replacing that, the reverb would still cut out from time to time. Ended up getting rid of it. Bought a real blonde '64 unit and never looked back.

budg
Contributing Member
**********
**

ohio

Home of the Goodyear blimp
Oct 16th, 2017 04:08 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Its amazing that we can send men to the moon and back surrounded by PCB boards , but somehow its not good enough for a guitar amp.

Doc Sarvis
Contributing Member
**********
********

USA/Salt Lake City

Tuned Strings and Tight Lines
Oct 16th, 2017 07:12 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Its amazing that we can send men to the moon and back surrounded by PCB boards".

Add spaceships to the list of PCB equipment I won't be working on.


stratcowboy
Contributing Member
**********
**

USA/Taos, NM

Oct 16th, 2017 09:55 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Not so sure about that claim. Back when they landed on the moon in 1969 (OK...so they shot it in a studio...yeah, I know...), you gotta wonder if maybe a lot of what they were doing back then still required hand wiring stuff. Besides...they only hit golf balls while they were on the moon. They weren't playing rock 'n roll. ;-/)

DrKev

Paris, France

It's just a guitar, not rocket science.
Oct 17th, 2017 03:08 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

We sent Voyager 2 on a 12 year mission through the harsh invironment of interplanetary space, carrying 12 scientific instruments, communications equipment, onboard computer, navigational computer, and we managed to visit 4 moving targets, Jupiter, Saturn, Urnaus, and Neptune. So yeah, I'm OK with PCBs.

My old first generation Laney LC15R was PCB. I did over 1000 gigs with that little amp (avg 3 - 4 gigs a week x 46 weeks a year x 7 years). It did great. I eventually had to replace the tube sockets which were direct mounted on the PCB, fixed one or two broken solder joints, and eventually one of the traces lifted and had to be jumped and that was the beginning of the end. For the work load it handled, dragged around town on a luggage cart, no complaints here.

Yeah, you can't do a half-assed soldering job on PCB and get away with it like you can turret board, but it is doable.

Bubbalou

USA

THE LOW END OF UPPER TEJAS
Oct 18th, 2017 05:46 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Of all the ones Peegoo referenced my favorite is tagboard for nice clean layout, ease of troubleshooting etc. Ratsnest like the one shown is very "junky looking" and I would think would introduce more noise.
As far as new boards go the two possible weaknesses I see are ribbon cable (if you do much bending while servicing) and if the board traces are two small then the can burn in two, crack, solder joint problems etc. Having said this well designed boards are little problem.

jhawkr
Contributing Member
**********
**********
******

Wichita, KS USA

It's all gravy from here on...
Oct 18th, 2017 06:10 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I'm thinking not exactly "PCB" for Apollo.

1969 Apollo Guidance Computer

willie
Contributing Member
********

Too Near Atlanta GA

Amp Tech Emeritus
Oct 18th, 2017 07:19 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Brought back a lot of memories for me. My first really good job was in 1966 working for Honeywell-Aerospace in St. Pete FL working on a couple of defense projects like this one. Going through NASA soldering school for this job provided knowledge and skills I've used ever since. Love how they refer to the soldering as "welds". Most of the soldering we did was done under a microscope. It was quite a place and a wonderful employer that I will never forget.

w

Leftee
Contributing Member
*******

VA

One foot on the brake, one on the GAS
Oct 18th, 2017 04:12 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Did anyone else think that was Sheldon Cooper in the video?

Previous 20 Messages  

FDP Forum / Miscellaneous and Non-Fender Topics / How does "hand-wired" improve tone?




Reply to this Topic
Display my email address             Lost your password?
Your Message:
Link Address (URL):
Link Title:




Moderators: Chris Greene  Iron Man  reverendrob  

FDP, LLC Privacy Policy: Your real name, username, and email
are held in confidence and not disclosed to any third parties, sold, or
used for anything other than FDP Forum registration unless you specifically authorize disclosure.

Furtkamp.com 
Internet Application Development

Copyright © 1999-2017 Fender Discussion Page, LLC   All Rights Reserved