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FDP Forum / Performer's Corner / Got me a church gig running FOH

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Juice Nichols
Contributing Member
********

Panama City, FL

I'm just a dude, playing a dude...
Aug 14th, 2017 01:09 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I just landed a gig running FOH for a large Baptist church in the area. Main fellowship hall is roughly 2000 seats. I went in last Sunday to watch the production from the mixer (48 channel Allen and Heath iLive T112) with the FOH engineer. A lot going on; Lighting cues, TV broadcasts, a lot of effect switching depending on the song. Way louder than I had envisioned. Should be fun!



Peegoo
Contributing Member
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The rain sounds like

a round of applause
Aug 14th, 2017 02:28 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Make a joyful noise, brother!

Juice Nichols
Contributing Member
********

Panama City, FL

I'm just a dude, playing a dude...
Aug 14th, 2017 06:52 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Thank you good sir!

Leftee
Contributing Member
*******

VA

Aug 14th, 2017 07:04 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Church sound is a big gig these days. Says the guy whose wife plays violin (mic'd up) in the orchestra every Sunday.

Juice Nichols
Contributing Member
********

Panama City, FL

I'm just a dude, playing a dude...
Aug 14th, 2017 07:15 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

To be honest, I was amazed at the level of production going on. Rivals the musicals I've worked on. I forgot to mention the 15 piece band and large choir. The drummer is in a glass cacoon. Lol


5Strats
Contributing Member
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Edmond/OKC

GospelBilly!
Aug 15th, 2017 05:48 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Sounds cool, best of luck with this new gig.

rockstar_not

USA

Thank God for guitars!
Aug 15th, 2017 06:06 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

This is going to be harder than the musical gigs for several reasons: set list and cues change every week, the people on stage age often are different every week, the attendees are nearly the same every week and you therefore have to be nice to them, the attendees are also often highly critical and opinionated about what things should sound like. Just keep this in mind: in a house of worship setting, God is the audience, the worship band and people doing production are the prompters to bring the attendees to a collective performance of worship. Keep those roles in mind and you'll do fine.

Juice Nichols
Contributing Member
********

Panama City, FL

I'm just a dude, playing a dude...
Aug 15th, 2017 07:08 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"This is going to be harder than the musical gigs for several reasons: set list and cues change every week, the people on stage age often are different every week, the attendees are nearly the same every week and you therefore have to be nice to them, the attendees are also often highly critical and opinionated about what things should sound like. Just keep this in mind: in a house of worship setting, God is the audience, the worship band and people doing production are the prompters to bring the attendees to a collective performance of worship. Keep those roles in mind and you'll do fine."

Thanks for the advice.

The FOH guy I was shadowing last Sunday pointed out a few of the people that attend the service that can be a PIA at times. Like the old guy that likes to hang out while we're doing sound check and complain that he can't converse with his friends. There's a huge enclosed area right outside the chapel door where you could converse all you want, complete with a coffee shop and other amenities.

From what I gather the band members are pretty steady from week to week. I guess I'll see how that turns out. I'm usually pretty good at working with difficult personalities, so hopefully my skills will serve me well in this setting.

mroulier
Contributing Member
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Suburban MD.

Are your prayer beads maple or rosewood?
Aug 21st, 2017 10:04 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

My choir director says, "The audience we are singing for is not in the pews, He's upstairs. And somehow, if we make a mistake, it's still a valid service...we don't have to start the whole thing over again!"



Roly
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Whitehorse Canada

I don't get out much
Aug 21st, 2017 05:40 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Hi Jim

Please tell us what you think about the A & H desk once you have enough Sundays under your belt.

cheers
Roly

Juice Nichols
Contributing Member
********

Panama City, FL

I'm just a dude, playing a dude...
Aug 22nd, 2017 09:29 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Will do Roly. Going to my first rehearsal this Wednesday. They'll let me get behind the controls finally so I can play with it some.

super mario
Contributing Member
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USA

I am on a quest...just not sure where!
Aug 22nd, 2017 10:15 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Wow - this is a very timely thread. It will be good to hear your review on the A&H board as our church is looking to replace the aging Yamaha analog board that is about 15 years in the running. Rockstar-Not is dead on about the complexity of the week-to-week part - our church rotates vocalists weekly, musicians bi-weekly with the only constant being the worship leader. The set list is different every week, unless there is a theme song we play during the course of a series. The congregation (ours runs around 200-250 each week) and can be just as critical. Keep an open mind and keep smiling. And Congrats on the gig!

Juice Nichols
Contributing Member
********

Panama City, FL

I'm just a dude, playing a dude...
Aug 25th, 2017 08:09 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I got some time behind the A&H iLive T112 desk on Wednesday. Here are my initial thoughts:

The A&H iLive series is not the newest offering (dLive is the newest) from A&H in the large format digital mixer line, but is still a very capable piece of equipment. The board itself is only a control unit for the rack mounted mixer that can be had in several I/O configurations, we have the 48 channel version. The board itself has 3 banks of 100mm motorized faders with 4 layers available on each bank. Bank 1 consists of 12 faders, bank 2 & 3 have 8 faders each. All of these banks can be configured to the operator's preference. It also has quick access to the most used controls. Pre-amp, gate, PEQ, compression, limiter/de-esser. These can be adjusted with old school rotary controls or via the touchpad screen.

The band consists of 3 guitars (2 acoustics, 1 electric), drums (wrapped in his own personal glass cocoon!) 3 keys (grand, Yamaha MO8, Korg Chrome 88), percussion, trumpet, flute, trombone, 4 praise singers (these singers change week to week). In addition to the band there are 5 lavaliers for the choir, 2-3 headworn mikes depending on the service, and a few wireless handhelds. We also provide a feed for 3 monitor mixes, in-ear monitors, TV and other areas of the campus.

If you've had experience running digital boards it won't take you long to get up to speed on this one. Most of my experience was on a Roland M480 and I've also worked with a Midas M32 as well. Most of the learning curve was just figuring out how to navigate around and A&H's lingo is a little different for some things. Last Wednesday I mixed the sound check for that evenings service and the Technical Director felt comfortable enough to let me mix the service and rehearsal later too.

PROS:
This desk is highly configurable. Assigning sends to monitor, AUX mixes, DCA masters and the like is a piece of cake. A simple press of the "mix" button under a particular AUX or DCA places all sends on fader, which makes it quick and easy to see how much of each channel is going to that mix. Selecting a channel to be routed to a mix is as simple as holding the "Sel" button on the mix and pressing the "Sel" button on each channel you would like to assign to the mix.

CONS:
Not too many complaints with this board yet. The only think I found slightly annoying were the rotary pots for the effect controls. These pots move incrementally in what I believe are 1db increments (not exactly sure on this one). As an example, I was trying to dial in the compressor threshold on one of the vocalists and one click clockwise gave me zero compression and 1 click counterclockwise gave me more than I wanted. I prefer to lower the threshold until I see the compressor just start to kick in on the louder parts. With a tapered pot this is not a problem. Still, this is just nitpicking. So far this is the only thing I've found that I had any issue with and it's quite possible more accurate adjustments can be made from the touch screen.

rockstar_not and super mario were spot on as far as working with the musicians themselves. I'll save that for another day though. ;)

(This message was last edited by Juice Nichols at 10:10 AM, Aug 25th, 2017)

RicOkc

Nicoma Park, OK.

"Let the music do the talking"
Sep 5th, 2017 02:37 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I had a gig with a large Baptist church years ago.

Great experience in some ways, working with strings and several woodwinds. The core group consisted of guitar, bass, drums,keyboards & several different vocalists.

It was an ever changing group, esp. during the holidays.

The main issue I had with the experience was since I was a paid sound-man was that I was responsible for running sound for the youth group meetings,weddings,three different services every Sunday and any other function at the church. Plus recording every service for shut-ins, and the elderly.

I was also working a full-time job during the week.

It got to be too much, esp. dealing with the different personalities like mentioned before.

There was a fellow there that was the head of their music program that no matter what he couldn't understand how to properly sing into a microphone. Usually positioning the mic. below his mouth and singing over the top of it. No matter how I tried to help him he just wouldn't/couldn't figure it out.

Like I said it became too much and I bailed and told myself never again.

Juice Nichols
Contributing Member
********

Panama City, FL

I'm just a dude, playing a dude...
Sep 5th, 2017 08:02 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"The main issue I had with the experience was since I was a paid sound-man was that I was responsible for running sound for the youth group meetings,weddings,three different services every Sunday and any other function at the church. Plus recording every service for shut-ins, and the elderly."

I'm not on the payroll so all I have to do is show up and mix the services. They have 2 full time techs that do all the stuff you're describing so I don't think things will get too out of control for me.

The biggest PIA currently is the bass player at this place. All of the musicians are using in-ear monitoring with personal mixers on stage. He constantly complains that he can't hear himself, but refuses to turn up his channel more than half way. Saying "I was taught to never turn up past half way." We're running his signal so hot that there's no where else to go. He still doesn't get that he's choking off the signal at his mixer and I think his single driver ear buds aren't helping either. I told the lead tech to turn it up when he's not around, pull the knob off and line the knob up with where he has it set. ;P

Leftee
Contributing Member
*******

VA

One foot on the brake, one on the GAS
Sep 5th, 2017 04:48 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

That's a great strategy. :-)

Roly
Contributing Member
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Whitehorse Canada

I don't get out much
Sep 6th, 2017 01:03 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"There was a fellow there that was the head of their music program that no matter what he couldn't understand how to properly sing into a microphone. Usually positioning the mic. below his mouth and singing over the top of it. No matter how I tried to help him he just wouldn't/couldn't figure it out."

That's why I bailed on corporate work.....A dynamic cardoid mic and a hammer have the same learning curve.

Cost me a lot of lost income, I can no longer deal with the morons who think the tech can control the laws of physics.
Thanks for the update Jim.
Here's a shot of thge only high end desk I have worked with.

Soundcraft Vi6

Juice Nichols
Contributing Member
********

Panama City, FL

I'm just a dude, playing a dude...
Sep 6th, 2017 06:34 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Nice looking rig Roly. It's interesting that the Soundcraft desk has displays for each channel. It seems most manufacturers are going to a single display that can show you settings by selecting the channel you'd like to view.

One thing I've found with the A&H is you have to pay very close attention to which layer you have selected or you may not be adjusting what you think you are. I also wish the mute buttons were separated from the other functions for a particular channel or at least colored red. I say this because I accidentally hit the mute buttons instead of the PAFL (Solo) when trying to listen to the main mix through my headphones. DOH!! Luckily it was during the sound check and not during the actual service. ;-)

(This message was last edited by Juice Nichols at 08:56 AM, Sep 6th, 2017)

RicOkc

Nicoma Park, OK.

"Let the music do the talking"
Sep 8th, 2017 03:17 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I have to admit that what I was being paid it wasn't enough for the amount of time I gave.

walshb
Contributing Member
**********
******

Manchester, TN

12,423 Mustangs passed and counting
Sep 30th, 2017 08:56 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Congrats on the new gig! With all that you say is going on, I don't think I could do it. I'd be too afraid to miss a cue, forget to do something at the right time, etc.
I think the running sound part would be fun, but with my poor hearing, I'm probably not cut out for that, either! lol
Hope you enjoy it and hope it goes well!!

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FDP Forum / Performer's Corner / Got me a church gig running FOH




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