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FDP Forum / Guitar Mods, Repairs, and Projects / neck pocket not tight for new neck??

telewired
Contributing Member
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Kansas City, Mo.

counting it all joy
Mar 27th, 2017 10:35 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

So what is the best way to handle this? match book shimms--wood shimms---no shimms--
The body and neck are from the same place---but a fery sloppyneck joint.
Any suggesstions to tighten up pocket.


Pinetree
Moderator Emeritus
(with many stars)

NW Pennsylvania

Mar 27th, 2017 11:34 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Is it broke?

If not, don't fix it.

The important aspect is the string alignment side-to-side.



Mick Reid
Contributing Member
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Australia

American-made in Oz!!
Mar 28th, 2017 12:17 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Hey telewired.
Is this a new project guitar? I thought I recall you mentioning a an upcoming project, but anyway...
I'm sure some of the real luthiers here will have better advice, but here's my shot...

I once shimmed the sides of a sloppy neck pocket by using strips of timber veneer (real wood).

The pocket was poorly routed so that one of the pocket sides was misaligned (not square). It was only about 1mm, but it drove me nuts looking at it!

I used CA to fix the veneer to the side of the pocket. The veneer was .8mm thick.
Because the route had a "taper", I used 2 layers of veneer at the widest gap. (2 different lengths of veneer, "stepped" IYKWIM).

I then used a good square sanding block to "level" the step and get the pocket width square and just right. The neck heel fit like a glove when I was done.

I been to two different joineries that just gave me some scrap lengths of veneer, despite me offering money (or coffee!).
The second shop gave me several different coloured timbers, so I can reasonably match common timber colours. He also gave me enough to probably last the rest of *my* days!

(This message was last edited by Mick Reid at 05:05 AM, Mar 28th, 2017)

twangdoodles

michigan usa

Mar 28th, 2017 05:48 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Yeah, no reason to worry about it unless it bugs you to look at it. If you'll be finishing this guitar you can be liberal with the finish around the edges of the pocket and sand to fit when done.

Te 52

Laws of Physics

strictly enforced
Mar 28th, 2017 11:07 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Be thankful it's not tight. A super-tight neck joint is a great way to end up with a cracked body.

Peegoo
Contributing Member
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The spotlight

looks like a prison break
Mar 28th, 2017 02:29 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

No need to tighten up the pocket. A little bit of slop is actually good.

Oftentimes you need a little slop to nudge the headstock one way or the other to make both E strings equidistant from the fingerboard edge at the heel of the neck.

Leftee
Contributing Member
*****

VA

Mar 28th, 2017 03:55 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Bolt it up and play it!

Mick Reid
Contributing Member
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Australia

American-made in Oz!!
Mar 28th, 2017 04:12 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"No need to tighten up the pocket. A little bit of slop is actually good."

I can understand having allowance for seasonal expansion as well as string alignment adjustment, but aren't there sonic reasons to consider with a "good fit"? Transference? Resonance?

I know we've discussed the whole "tone woods" relevancy/irrelevancy and "sum of the parts" concept many times, but would anyone here that's built a guitar completely from scratch (myself not included) intentionally route a pocket with 1/16" gap all the way around the heel?

I suppose "slop" is a pretty broad term as well. One man's slop, is another man's allowance.
Telewired didn't specify the degree of said slop either. I just presumed a lot.

I'm not arguing or disagreeing with the above comments, merely questioning and trying to learn more myself.

Leftee
Contributing Member
*****

VA

Mar 28th, 2017 04:23 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I don't think it's the big deal that I used to believe. I had a Fernandes Strat that was, hands down, the best Strat I'd ever had until this one I built. It had a sloppy neck pocket fit.

Peegoo
Contributing Member
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The spotlight

looks like a prison break
Mar 28th, 2017 04:53 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

If mechanical coupling to improve energy transference around the sides of the neck were a true consideration, no guitar player concerned with having great tone would play a screw-on-neck guitar.

All that matters is that the neck is joined to the body in such a manner that it is securely affixed and immovable.

There are many different ways to attach a neck to a guitar. If one scheme were clearly superior to all others, the inferior ones would all go the way of the dinosaur.

An example of a less than optimal design is the Parker import neck joint. You don't see any other maker riding that train to the bank.

Parker's radial neck joint

Mick Reid
Contributing Member
***

Australia

American-made in Oz!!
Mar 28th, 2017 08:34 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Good points Peegoo.

I've never seen that radial neck joint. That's pretty rad! (no pun intended) (well maybe a little bit!)

Probably more about building a "better" mouse trap or being different for the sake of being different.

Thanks for the input.


telewired
Contributing Member
**********
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Kansas City, Mo.

counting it all joy
Mar 28th, 2017 09:45 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Thanks guys----I would say I can fit 3 business cards in one side of pocket--- I may glue a piece of veneer---

catnineblue

LA , Calif

I try my best
Mar 28th, 2017 11:38 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I've built 4 strats . Three I still have two are a close fit yet I can move the neck side to side and one which I used the same crappy template I made. I used a router with one of those porter cable guides you fit in the bases cutout and a 1/4" carbide bit.

Well the one white one has some slop , not a lot and not . I just ignore it and all three have different un-plugged tone and all are good to me.

If I bought it and I was bugged I'd do the shim deal.

DrKev
Contributing Member
*****

Paris, France

It's just a guitar, not rocket science.
Mar 29th, 2017 12:17 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"but aren't there sonic reasons to consider with a "good fit"? Transference? Resonance?"

No.

Somebody once tested bolt-on vs glued in, and bolt on was better for sustain, according to the measuring equipment, but in human listening tests nobody could tell the difference. (American Lutherie magazine, fall 2007).

Just to reiterate what has already been said, a little too loose is always better than a little too tight (for neck alignment and reducing neck pocket finish cracks).

Mick Reid
Contributing Member
***

Australia

American-made in Oz!!
Mar 29th, 2017 04:12 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Somebody once tested bolt-on vs glued in, and bolt on was better for sustain, according to the measuring equipment, but in human listening tests nobody could tell the difference."

Interesting DrKev. I wondered if there had been any scientific testing on the subject.
I've tried to imagine the process and what unit of measurement would be used to determine the transference.

I'll see if I can find the article online.
Thanks

Peegoo
Contributing Member
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The spotlight

looks like a prison break
Mar 29th, 2017 04:48 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

If it were me, I'd hook up a meter set to read AC millivolts and run a stopwatch on a mechanically-plucked string, and record the voltage of the attack and decay over time.

That will give you a good indication of what sustains best.



Mick Reid
Contributing Member
***

Australia

American-made in Oz!!
Mar 29th, 2017 08:04 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Professor Peegoo, calling Professor Peegoo!

You're needed in the Electrified Guitar Labratorium stat!!!

:^)

hushnel
Contributing Member
**********
********

North Florida

A Friend of Bill W.
Mar 30th, 2017 03:19 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

If the body is already finished I would just leave it alone, maybe cover the worst of it with the pickguard design, if it's unfinished wood I would slice off some paper or credit card size shims on the table saw.

It's all cosmetic crap, as long as everything is on the center line it'll work.

Did ya see my home depot 2" by 8" propane roasted fretless, there is a picture in my profile, if ya wanna see ugly "o)

FDP Forum / Guitar Mods, Repairs, and Projects / neck pocket not tight for new neck??




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