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FDP Forum / Performer's Corner / Amp Effects loops, yes or no?

Previous 20 Messages  
Gaukdawg

Ohio

Say what one more time!
Dec 25th, 2016 06:31 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I've tried a few times to use a loop and it never worked for me. Always lots of tone lost in my opinion.

Juice Nichols
Contributing Member
*******

Panama City, FL

I'm just a dude, playing a dude...
Dec 25th, 2016 06:34 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I like to put time based effects in the loop if the amp has one.

Mick Reid
Contributing Member
***

Australia

American-made in Oz!!
Dec 25th, 2016 10:29 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"...time based effects in the loop...."

And reverb. OD's, boost, compressor in the in front.

Delay, for one, sounds *so* much better through a loop than front loaded imo.

I have all the amps I need, but an fx loop is always a big consideration for me when shopping for one.


reverendrob
FDP Data Goon
Moderator

We all want

our time in hell
Dec 25th, 2016 11:06 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Delay it depends on the amp and whether it's clean.

And the type of delay as well - I want an Echoplex or Space Echo in front of the amp, period.

Juice Nichols
Contributing Member
*******

Panama City, FL

I'm just a dude, playing a dude...
Dec 26th, 2016 09:08 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Agree Mick. I left reverb out because I've never used a reverb pedal.

If you want the effect to influence the input stage put in front of the amp.

MLC
Contributing Member
**********

It's not just good..

...it's good enough.
Dec 29th, 2016 01:27 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I've only owned a couple amps that even had effects loops - and I was never all that impressed with the results when I used them.
Plus, the additional cables running back to the amp was always a pain to deal with - too messy for my OCD to handle. (:^O)

I run everything into the front now and I'm happy with the results I'm getting.

mroulier
Contributing Member
**********

Suburban MD.

Are your prayer beads maple or rosewood?
Dec 30th, 2016 09:51 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I ended up running all my fx except the EQ into the front of my Peavey classic 30. If I wanted a solo boost, hitting the EQ gave me "more gain", but not "more volume". I tried everything thru the fx loop originally, but the flanger pedal boosted a bit too much when in the fx loop.
I'm unhappy to have an additional cable between the amp and pedalboard, but I'm getting the sounds I need when I need them.

ninworks
Contributing Member
****

Tennessee

Too Much GAS
Dec 31st, 2016 05:15 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Uh...no. I never had a use for an effects loop in my guitar amp. I've had 2 amps with them, over the years, and I never used either of them. If I were to use an effects loop it would probably be just for reverb. Long ago I discovered that using reverb, through a guitar amp, live on stage, didn't sound good to me. It just muddied things up. Delay works much better. In the studio I would rather use the reverb in the recording equipment. It sounds so much better than through an amp and I can place it where I want to in the stereo spectrum.

Mick Reid
Contributing Member
***

Australia

American-made in Oz!!
Dec 31st, 2016 04:52 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Plus, the additional cables running back to the amp was always a pain to deal with - too messy for my OCD to handle."

I made a single cable to help with that.
I know it only eliminates 1 cable, but it does make for a tidier more manageable set up.

loop cable

(This message was last edited by Mick Reid at 06:28 PM, Nov 6th, 2017)

Mike DeTorrice
Contributing Member
*

USA

Feb 2nd, 2017 05:04 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Well, besides overdrives and distortion, many times I prefer, if possible, to have FX's like reverb, delay, chorus/flange/phase and additional EQ after the entire amplifier, including the power stage, especially if the power section is playing a noticeable role in the overall guitar sound (like adding some thickness or drive on it's own.)

This would call for a mixer type set-up, maybe a wet-dry-wet rig using a load box line-out or power stage tap and a final clean power amp. This might not always be practical in a typical small gig situation or for just jamming, but for practice, studio and recording it can give the clearest sound and a lot of flexibility.

gdw3

LA-la-land, CA

Insert clever comment here
Feb 2nd, 2017 01:14 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Agree with above. I'll use an fx loop if I'm using the amp's overdrive. BUT, all that extra cable can cause a lot of signal loss. I imagine that's why some of you have had less-than-great experiences.

I have a 2-channel buffer, which buffers the signal thru my pedals to the amp, and then again thru the cabling of the fx loop. Such a huge difference! You can hardly tell the difference between when I'm plugged into all my fx or straight into the amp.

Fast Lane Pablo

USA

Nov 4th, 2017 08:55 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Most of the time I use it for a single delay that's always on and sits on the amp. I set it up as a slapback with about three repeats, just barely audible for a little fattening.

With my Rivera S120-210, which is a stereo chorus amp, I sometimes run a TC G-Major 2 in the loop, or an old Space Echo depending on the music.

I've owned two Mesa Boogie amps, MK I RI and a Studio .22+, and have never liked the loops in them.

Cal-Woody

USA/California

Why do I keep fixing things that work?
Nov 5th, 2017 07:23 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I use the effects loop for all my time based effects with the best results. When I ran my delay pedal into the front of the amp it losses the spacial feel and affects the tone.
So far, I'm running a chorus, phase shifter, 2 delays and a tremolo pedal to the effects loop. To the front of the amp, I have a tuner, Blues Driver 2, Hot Rod distortion, boost pedal and then my compresser. My boost pedal is set for level matching single coils to match my humbucker guitar volume so that I maintain fairly even levels.
I'm quite happy with this setup and find that the effects that I have running sound clearer and do not affect the tone, but when I run the delay pedal into the front of the amp, it just losses the spacial feel and tone.
So Yes, I do and like having an effects loop and find that my tone is less affected by going this route and is truer sounding to how the amp sounds while playing my guitar straight into the amp.
I suggest you try it and see for yourself at how much more natural it sounds and how it doesn't color your tone as compared to running everything into the front of your amp.
Yeah, it does require more cabling but I think that there is less trade off with affecting your tone.

Mick Reid
Contributing Member
****

Australia

American-made in Oz!!
Nov 6th, 2017 04:34 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"...with this setup and find that the effects that I have running sound clearer and do not affect the tone, but when I run the delay pedal into the front of the amp, it just losses the spacial feel and tone."

Good description Cal.

"...it does require more cabling but I think that there is less trade off with affecting your tone."

I'll refer again to the link in my earlier post above. I've re-uploaded the photo. Easy DIY project :^)


Cal-Woody

USA/California

Why do I keep fixing things that work?
Nov 7th, 2017 10:22 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Hey Mick, on your 'snake' that you made for your effects loop, what did you use for cabling? And is this two pairs of cables lashed together?
It would be a cinch if per say, you could use something like microphone cables to run pairs to the effects, but the ground wire is bare and has no insulation, and it would be low noise also.
Because I'm not running a wireless unit and the inputs are fairly far apart, I've just mated a pair of cables together and used heatshrink to keep it secure near the amplifier and effects end of the cables, the pairing stays in place and is working out Ok, but yeah, it still means that I have cables running all over the floor and creates a cause for some attention and the odd repair, when I get too excited! Lol But what I've done is: paired up my three main cables, send/return from the pedal board and the output from the pedals that go to the front of the amp, then the input cable from my guitar is the only one that is free from the 'snake'. The input guitar cable is unattached because of A) I have a Wah pedal that sits on the floor and is hooked up to the signal chain that goes to the front of the amp and have no room for it on the pedal board. I also have the amps footswitch sitting just outside the cables coming from the pedal board and this setup seems to work out best and then I just fasten a couple of wire ties to the footswitch cable to keep everything tidy.
The only thing I'm still working on is deciding where my compresser should be in the signal chain. So far, I've been running it at the end of my pedals that go to the front of the amp, but while reading here, I see that a lot of people are running it at the front of the signal chain to the front of the amp. So, I'm still experimenting with it's placement but it is only on when I'm using single coil pups and off the rest of the time. Haven't tried very many compressors yet and currently am using a Beringer compressor, which was cheap but has been quiet and decent amount of adjustment for any tonal variations and allows for me to have decent amount of gain and almost a dampening/noise gate while using my Strat or Tele. You know, when you palm mute between phrases. It's not that extreme but adds some quieting when I'm not wanking away!
I watch and see all of these different brands of compressors you guys use but this was an effective way to approach my situation and am still learning how to use it. Once I have a better understanding of how it should work, then maybe I'll make a real investment on a good one, but for the most part, it is OFF more than ON, with just the boost pedal being used to facilitate the difference between single coil and humbuckers.
Oh yeah, I was asking about your snake! DUH! Lol

Mick Reid
Contributing Member
****

Australia

American-made in Oz!!
Nov 7th, 2017 03:43 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Hey Mick, on your 'snake' that you made for your effects loop, what did you use for cabling? And is this two pairs of cables lashed together?"

Cal, I used shielded 4-core microphone cable.
The shielding is the foil type and not incorporated into the ground. However, I have not experienced any noise issues in this application.
(edit to add: 2 tip + 2 sleeve for each send/return)

You'll notice the lengths of wire extending beyond the outer jacket is twisted and heat-shrink'ed.
That was not by accident. The twisting helps provide a shielding effect. I can't attest to what, if any, difference it makes here, but I did it anyway just on principle.

You can buy "twisted pair" cable but it was pretty expensive here at the time and I'm not sure there would have been a significant cost/benefit in this application.

FWIW, the cable I used is not expensive stuff. It's just standard "Radio Shack equivalent" type cable.

Hope this helps.

(This message was last edited by Mick Reid at 06:00 PM, Nov 7th, 2017)

Cal-Woody

USA/California

Why do I keep fixing things that work?
Nov 7th, 2017 06:03 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I have some Mogami mic cables but have not even really looked at them since my purchase. But if it is anything like their guitar cable, it may already have an insulated ground in it and may have lucked out. I thought your cable runs looked thinner than regular audio cable and this verifies my original view of what I saw! Cool concept! I know it's thinner and won't take the abuse that most cables take but if I can route it cleanly when I setup, then, a little gaffe tape on the floor might keep me from destroying it. That's a big MIGHT! I'll have to check what I have and see if we have a winner. But at any rate, I really just need 3 pairs to connect to the loop/amp input, then use my regular guitar cord to hook up my input signal, guitar/wah pedal.
Therefore, the ground wire in the mic cables won't be needed and would eliminate one cable instead of using 3 to hook up the loop and amp input. That might be a bit cleaner and have less to futz with while doing my setup!
Like I stated earlier, I have the lengths adjusted and heat-shrinked together for the effects loop and amp input, but having one less thing to on the floor would help with my setup!
Thanks for responding to my questions, Woody

(This message was last edited by Cal-Woody at 08:13 PM, Nov 7th, 2017)

Mick Reid
Contributing Member
****

Australia

American-made in Oz!!
Nov 7th, 2017 06:38 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

With my set up, it's 2 cables on the floor going to the amp. The FX loop cable, and one into the front end (OD's, comp, boost). Of course 1 lead from gtr into pedalboard.

I you have the Mogami "Gold Studio" cables, they are a quad AFAIK. The other models I think are 1 or 2 conductor.


walshb
Contributing Member
**********
******

Manchester, TN

12,423 Mustangs passed and counting
Nov 7th, 2017 07:07 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Definitely "yes" for me, especially with a channel switcher because the delay (in front) will usually be much more noticeable when switching to the OD channel. In the effects loop a delay (and reverb) usually work much better.


Previous 20 Messages  

FDP Forum / Performer's Corner / Amp Effects loops, yes or no?




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