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FDP Forum / Amp Mods, Repairs, and Projects / JJ vs GT

Next 20 Messages  
NHILL1

United States

Nov 29th, 2016 10:03 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I have been using JJ's for along time now in my DRRI, and have since forgotten how the original tubes sounded. I wanted to see what are the differences between JJ's and GT's, specifically 12ax7's, 12at7 and their 6v6's.

I am going to be having this comparison personally anyways as I'm purchasing these tubes to attempt to bring the amp back to it's former glory, because the JJ's in my amp seem to absolutely annihilate treble, and increase noise.

(This message was last edited by NHILL1 at 12:06 PM, Nov 29th, 2016)

Pinetree
Moderator Emeritus
(with many stars)

NW Pennsylvania

Nov 29th, 2016 11:38 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Most here have no issue with JJ tubes, myself included.


Perhaps there are other gremlins at play making your amp noisy?




NHILL1

United States

Nov 29th, 2016 12:00 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Well the bias is hot (70%), which is part of it. I don't think JJ's in themselves are bad, but in a DRRI they seem to push the lower mids and make the whole amp sound cloudy, in a really exaggerated way. Also noise isn't the main issue, that's just a side effect if anything or a product of the bias.

My hope is the GT's will brighten the amp back, and remove the ugly cloudiness that I can't dial out right now.

This thought came to me because I have a SRRI in my possession right now and it has all GT's throughout, and doesn't have the same ugly cloudiness as the JJ's.

(This message was last edited by NHILL1 at 02:03 PM, Nov 29th, 2016)

NHILL1

United States

Nov 29th, 2016 01:06 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Also, after doing some reasearch I found out GT 12ax7's are relabeled sovtek 12ax7wa's. So I decided to go with the ladder since they were 1/2 the price.

So question, I already have all JJ's, are there any tubes that come with a stock DRRI that aren't relabeled JJ's besides the 12ax7's (which are relabeled sovteks). I want to put the amp back to the day I took it out of the store, so if I could do so in the cheapest way possible that'd help me out.

mirrorboy

Yorkshire, England

Nov 29th, 2016 02:00 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Tung-Sol re-issue 12ax7s sound sweet.

mirrorboy

Yorkshire, England

Nov 29th, 2016 02:00 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

sorry double post

(This message was last edited by mirrorboy at 04:02 PM, Nov 29th, 2016)

NHILL1

United States

Nov 29th, 2016 02:04 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I've tried tung-sols, and they're okay but not really my cup of tea. I like the Sovtek's because they're a little flatter in the high end, and seem to have a slightly different mid-range. I may try the tung-sols again some day, but from what I could tell I prefer the sovtek.

MLC
Contributing Member
**********

It's not just good..

...it's good enough.
Nov 29th, 2016 02:52 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Tung-Sol re-issue 12ax7s sound sweet."

My ears tell me the same thing.
JJ preamp tubes work for me in my Vox, but I don't like them in my Fenders. To me, the JJ's are on the dark side and they sound dull in the Fenders. The Vox circuit is brighter with a big midrange punch and the JJ's seem to do much better there.

I've never had noise issues with JJ's.

The Tung Sol RI's have become my go-to preamp tube, these days. I have them in both my Deluxe Reverb and my Mission 5E3. I even put them in my AC15 and I'm really liking them there.
I have a bunch of Sovtek's and they're not a bad sounding tube, I just prefer the tone with the TS tubes.

NHILL1

United States

Nov 29th, 2016 03:01 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Interesting, I have a tung-sol 12ax7 so when the Sovtek's come I'll be able to compare them directly. What do you prefer about the tung-sols? I thought they were kind of treble-y, in a thin kind of way. Just my thoughts :o

MLC
Contributing Member
**********

It's not just good..

...it's good enough.
Nov 30th, 2016 07:21 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I like mirrorboy's word - "sweet"

I think the Tung Sol's have a nice, well-balanced tone. I don't find them thin, at all. In fact, I hear a nice, round top end from them and I like the way they react to volume changes - especially when you start pushing them.

Coming from the JJ's, I suppose they might sound thin, at first. The JJ's being darker might make the TS's sound that way.

Now that we're talking about all this, maybe I should try messing around with the Sovtek's I have. (;^D)


mirrorboy

Yorkshire, England

Nov 30th, 2016 10:01 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I'm glad MLC answered the OP's last question as I find it difficult putting the detail in subjective opinion.

I do concur with MLC. The Tung-Sol are rounded and sort of midway between JJ and Chinese Ruby on the tonal spectrum.

Another thing, I think Tube Amp Doctor make the sweetest 6v6. It's the 6V6GT STR.

NHILL1

United States

Nov 30th, 2016 11:22 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

MLC, your the first person whos heard what I heard! To me the tung sols are just kind of pokey in the top end. I compared it to a stock sovtek in my SRRI and I immediately put the sovtek back. Imo the top end is covered by the bright switch, you dont need the top end from the tube.

On the other hand jj's tend to be too dark in my DRRI, hence I've long struggled thinking it was the amp that was dark and muddy, but neither did I care for the tungsols in mine. It wasn't until I researched what fender put stock in a DRRI that I found out theres another option.

BbendFender
Contributing Member
**********

American Patriot

About as ordinary as you can get.
Nov 30th, 2016 11:52 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

A local tech worked on my Deluxe Reverb and 2 of my Princeton Reverbs. He put in JJ 6V6's and they worked well except in the last Princeton. I replaced them with some used but good Tung-Sol and now it sounds much better.
I have very few "new" tubes. For many years I have used tubes that I salvaged from older components and have never had a tube failure.

MLC
Contributing Member
**********

It's not just good..

...it's good enough.
Nov 30th, 2016 01:44 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Imo the top end is covered by the bright switch, you don't need the top end from the tube."

None of my amps have a bright switch. (;^)

"It wasn't until I researched what fender put stock in a DRRI that I found out there's another option."

Oh, there are options - LOTS of options.

NHILL1

United States

Nov 30th, 2016 02:15 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Lol what I know that sounds weird MLC, but I always thought Sovtek was for metal amps/high gain applications, turns out Fender regularly uses them. I had no clue.

Also I had a bright switch installed in my DRRI, likewise the SRRI comes with one :) Likewise, I like the sound with the bright switch on, the way it acts with the circuit makes a very acoustic sound and pure bliss imo.

Bbend Fender: I was really only talking about 12ax7's as they relate to the main gain stages, v1, v2, and v4 in blackface amps. Likewise I only buy new production tubes, I don't see the allure of old stock tubes.

(This message was last edited by NHILL1 at 04:18 PM, Nov 30th, 2016)

MLC
Contributing Member
**********

It's not just good..

...it's good enough.
Nov 30th, 2016 02:48 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Never felt the need to add a bright switch to my DR (it's a '68).
I've got the Tung Sol RI tubes in the preamp, but the 6V6's are NOS Marconi - it sounds amazing (to me, anyway - though others have made similar comments about it).

I'm glad I got the Marconi's when I did - even bought a 2nd pair after realizing what a great sound they have. NOS prices have gotten pretty crazy, though, so I won't be doing that again anytime soon. One of the benefits of NOS is longer life - so maybe I won't have to worry about my DR for a while. (:^)

NHILL1

United States

Nov 30th, 2016 03:34 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Who knows man, different horses for different courses. Lot's of love for tung-sols here, I personally like what comes with fender amps stock. I've found that out through painful experience and lots of spent dollars trying out different things. The only thing I'd consider is re-biasing if the amp comes cold, blackface amps tend to be biased a little colder than they should be. But as far as parts are concerned, in the future I'm approaching my amps with care and caution, I'm not so hasty to try to change things.

After all this time I've owned my amp, I spent the majority of the time f*cking with it, and now I'm just trying to put it back the way it was, go figure.

On a note, I keep hearing many reviews complaining about the Sovtek 12ax7wa's, out right calling them bad tubes. I don't understand this as they're stock in fender blackface amps, and the stock BF fenders sound great. I don't see tung-sols in any modern production amps, so I wonder where people are getting these ideas from that they're vastly superior to what comes stock in many production amps.

(This message was last edited by NHILL1 at 06:01 PM, Nov 30th, 2016)

NHILL1

United States

Nov 30th, 2016 04:45 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Also, I decided to pull this quote from tdpri.com, and I agree with this guy...

"I used to take people's advice on tubes and it even led me to almost getting rid of my Rivera because I thought it was doomed. Then I started doing some research. I had been running ALL JJ's. BIG mistake my amp always sounded like there was a thick moving blanket over the top of it. I now am running JJ's in the power section and Sovtek's in the preamp. 12ax7wa's. The Blues Jr. I believe came with 12ax7wa's from the factory. That's what I would stick with. These mass produced amps were designed to run their best with cheap available tubes. Your best bet would be to find what it came with stock and find the best graded version of those tube sets. this of course is strictly MHO :) I hope you find something that works for you!!"

Quote

Hammond101
Contributing Member
**********

So. Cal. USA

Nov 30th, 2016 05:32 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

There are many tubes out there and many amps. For the most part I have no issues with JJ tubes and have them in most of my amps. I will say the JJ 6V6 is a very robust tube, handles higher B+ voltage and sounds much like a 6L6. I like that.

Note that GT does not make tubes. All of their tubes are made by different manufactures and relabeled/branded, same goes for TAD.

Try several brands both preamp and power amp and play what you like best in that amp. It is the way of the world.

Also the DR and DRRI have a bright cap built in so the stock amp is playing the circuit with the bright switch always on in the trem channel. Installation of a bright switch basically turns the bright cap on and off like BF amps equipped with the switch.

I don't put the bright cap in my builds unless there is a switch. I'd rather turn up the treble a bit as I find it smoother on top. I also fiddle with the mid resistor and add just a bit more middle and a less scooped tone.



NHILL1

United States

Nov 30th, 2016 05:44 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

The main issue for me Hammond is actually lack of treble content, and overall headroom. I agree with you in that I like JJ 6v6's, but if I'm correct the JJ 12ax7's is what is causing the issue I'm having. I have to wait till my replacement tubes come in, which are Sovtek 12ax7wa's (OEM tubes).

(This message was last edited by NHILL1 at 07:52 PM, Nov 30th, 2016)

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FDP Forum / Amp Mods, Repairs, and Projects / JJ vs GT




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