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FDP Forum / Fender Amps: Vintage (before 1985) / 20uf/600vdc Electrolytics, wow they are expensive.

BbendFender
Contributing Member
*********

American Patriot

I'm on guard these days.
Jun 23rd, 2016 03:35 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I have a '63 Bandmaster that barely survived a massive fire. Most of the damage is smoke damage but there was some heat damage.
I just checked on Electrolytics and the only 20uf/600vdc caps available are Sprague and they are $23 each. I will need 7 of them. I want to use quality electrolytics but is there any way to get around these prices?

willie
Contributing Member
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Too Near Atlanta GA

Amp Tech Emeritus
Jun 23rd, 2016 06:42 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

They are also huge... :)

w

Pinetree
Moderator Emeritus
(with many stars)

NW Pennsylvania

Jun 23rd, 2016 06:59 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Will 500v do ya?

External link

BbendFender
Contributing Member
*********

American Patriot

I'm on guard these days.
Jun 23rd, 2016 07:24 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Not sure Pintree. I'll have my tech check to see. I'd like to put Sprague's in this amp but they are the expensive ones.

Pinetree
Moderator Emeritus
(with many stars)

NW Pennsylvania

Jun 23rd, 2016 07:41 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

David Allen ships his amps and kits with F+T instead of Sprague if that helps you any.
Hopefully H101 can check in here.




Lenny1716

SoCal, South Bay

Jun 23rd, 2016 09:20 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Nothing wrong with F&T caps. Also, for Sprague, checkout below link, at a much lower price than you stated. 500V should do, which is the rating I used when I replaced my 67 Bandmaster (AB763) filter caps.

External link

Hammond101
Contributing Member
*********

So. Cal. USA

Jun 24th, 2016 03:05 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Ouch! Bend over buddy. I'm not saying your tech is gouging you but the Sprague 20/600 has a list price of $12.95 at Antique Electronics. If he sets up an account with their wholesale division, CE Dist, he can buy them for less. $23.00 is a stretch in my book. Even with shipping you are getting reamed. I guess I am saying he is taking advantage of you!

I think the 22/500 F&T is a better cap.....Retail $3.95ea. They will be fine in your amp. It's a No Brainer vintage amp of not. The poor toasted baby will never be original anyway.

The only time I use Sprague these days is if there is no suitable F&T or by customer request.

I still buy Sprauge caps for 25/25 and 25/50 bypass applications. They look cool and fit well. I use the F&T 100/100 for bias, $2.40 ea.

Just my personal opinion. There may be other factors for his pricing.

BbendFender
Contributing Member
*********

American Patriot

I'm on guard these days.
Jun 24th, 2016 07:06 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

H101, my tech is not really gouging me. I haven't carried the amp to him yet but I thought I'd go ahead and buy the electrolytics. My tech is a good guy and is really a great tech. The 22uf/600vdc caps are expensive. If I can get by with 500vdc, I'll be much better off.

Steve Dallman
Contributing Member
*********

Merrill, Wisconsin

Age is just a number...mine is big
Jun 25th, 2016 07:38 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

If these are for the first caps, and they are a pair in parallel, replacing the parallel pair (two 20uF caps in parallel would be 40uF) with a series pair bypassed with a pair of 22OuF caps of double the desired value with lower power handling is pretty standard. A pair of 80uF caps at 350v will form either a 40uF @700v total capacitance and will work fine. Your tech should be familiar with this type of change. It's common.

I just saw an 80uF@450v cap for $5. That would be $10 to make a 40uF@900v pair...plus a couple resistors. The resistors keep the voltage spread across the two caps even.

The other caps are 525V caps. The B+ voltage is listed at 440v, so 500v caps should be fine for all but the B+ filters. Voltages will be a little higher because of line voltage increases over the years, but 500 should be OK.

600 should not be necessary anywhere.

(This message was last edited by Steve Dallman at 09:43 AM, Jun 25th, 2016)

Steve Dallman
Contributing Member
*********

Merrill, Wisconsin

Age is just a number...mine is big
Jun 25th, 2016 12:13 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

F&T 80uF are higher, but two would cost what one of those 600v would.

In series, capacitance halves, and voltage doubles.

Two 80uF/350v caps would form 40uF@700v. Perfect. The cap can has to be slightly rewired.

Any amp tech that is not aware of this, isn't much of an amp tech.

I just did a mid 60's blackface Vibrolux. Replacing ALL electrolytic caps with F&T cost me less than $25 in parts. That includes filter caps, bias cap and cathode bypass caps.

SoK66
Contributing Member
*******

USA

We had the hit but Van got the money
Jun 28th, 2016 07:25 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

This ^

First off, the Sprague 20/600s won't fit in the amps' cap can, they're too long. In fact they are huge. And, the only section where you need the aditional voltage capacity is the power supply, i.e., the first two caps. Steve's solution is best for brown amps, just use the schematic of a blackface amp as your guide. Wire the first two caps in series with 220k 1W+ resistors cross the leads as equalization resistors. You MUST remove the positive side jumper under the cap board and relocate the ground wire to the second cap's ground. Done, piece 'o cake.

Radarman

USA/Colorado

Jun 29th, 2016 09:13 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

There's also this source for 600v lytics. But the above advice is excellent.

600v lytic source

(This message was last edited by Radarman at 11:16 AM, Jun 29th, 2016)

BbendFender
Contributing Member
*********

American Patriot

I'm on guard these days.
Jun 29th, 2016 09:24 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Radar, those have some great prices. Thanks.
I ordered some others earlier in the week and they should be here any day.

Mars Hall

USA NW Indiana

Telefunkin'
Jul 3rd, 2016 12:54 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Tube Amp Doctor has a branded 20uf/550v cap. I can only guess that F&T manufactures them. I had to special order them through Mojotone. They have worked well in my 61 Concert Amp, 6G12-A circuit.

BbendFender
Contributing Member
*********

American Patriot

I'm on guard these days.
Jul 5th, 2016 10:04 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Well, I pulled the doghouse cover and the big electrolytics are only 525v. The schematic says 600v though. I just received the 500v caps and will put them in.

FDP Forum / Fender Amps: Vintage (before 1985) / 20uf/600vdc Electrolytics, wow they are expensive.




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