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FDP Forum / Fender Amps: Vintage (before 1985) / Black face amp with silver face grill cloth? Original?

Biggie Stardust

New England

Apr 23rd, 2016 07:24 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

New member here, just joined to ask this question. Has anyone ever seen a black face Bandmaster having silver face style blue and silver grill cloth? I ask, because I realized today that my black face Bandmaster, that I bought two years ago, which I was told is a '66, has blue and silver style grill cloth.

I realize this could have been changed at some point by a previous owner, but then read elsewhere (http://forums.fender.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=65032) that there were a couple of instances of Bassmans from this same transitional period that have black face cosmetics with silver face style grill cloth. Here are some photos. The grill cloth is pretty yellowed and old, but hopefully the blue is visible. I checked inside the amp and the staples are black, which I had read elsewhere can signify them possibly being original.

http://s292.photobucket.com/user/pbo2007/slideshow/Fender%20Bandmaster

(This message was last edited by Biggie Stardust at 09:29 PM, Apr 23rd, 2016)

BbendFender
Contributing Member
*********

American Patriot

I'm on guard these days.
Apr 23rd, 2016 08:50 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Possible. I think Fender used "all" of their supplies when transitioning to something new. I have seen brown face chassis in a black tolex cab. It had to be original because it was a Bassman and the head and speaker cab were the same. The ones of us who are older have probably seen a few of these combinations.
Oh, welcome. You can stay awhile I hope.

BbendFender
Contributing Member
*********

American Patriot

I'm on guard these days.
Apr 23rd, 2016 08:51 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Here's you link made easier. Just copy the link address and put it in the proper place below.

Fender weird stuff

slider313

NC

Apr 24th, 2016 08:30 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Are the staples holding down the grillcloth silver or black?

Biggie Stardust

New England

Apr 24th, 2016 02:13 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Thanks for simplifying my link.

The staples on the back of the baffle are painted black. That's what is posted in one of the photos. Is that what you're asking?

I may have to unscrew the front baffle and see how the rest of the grill cloth looks and look for staples on the sides.

(This message was last edited by Biggie Stardust at 04:18 PM, Apr 24th, 2016)

slider313

NC

Apr 24th, 2016 02:17 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

So, the inner flap of grillcloth was painted over also?

I think it's been replaced. There was no silver/blue grillcloth in 1966.

(This message was last edited by slider313 at 04:23 PM, Apr 24th, 2016)

Biggie Stardust

New England

Apr 24th, 2016 02:20 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I'm not sure of that. I'll check later when I get the chance to unscrew the front grill cloth baffle and take a closer look at it.

slider313

NC

Apr 24th, 2016 02:24 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Is there a tube chart inside the cabinet? The head cab could be from '68 and the chassis from '66.

Biggie Stardust

New England

Apr 24th, 2016 07:37 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I just got back from work, so I had a chance to take the chassis out to look at the inner staples. They're black! It's funny how much the inner part of the grill cloth color has been retained compared to the yellowed front part.

I took some photos of that and the tube chart and also the stamp on the inside of the head. Those are added to the link below.

Amp photos

(This message was last edited by Biggie Stardust at 09:38 PM, Apr 24th, 2016)

BbendFender
Contributing Member
*********

American Patriot

I'm on guard these days.
Apr 24th, 2016 07:48 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Date code on your amp is a '66. It should not have this type grill cloth. 99% sure at least the grill cloth has been changed. No big deal unless you are selling it. Play it and enjoy it.

roadhog96

USA / CT.

Apr 24th, 2016 07:57 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Fender did go through a transition period where there were some Blackface amps like the Bandmaster, Bassman and Showman that had the very early Silverface cloth. Remember there were two versions that had the Turquoise vertical threads. The first version that was used in the first Silverface amps that were actually made in 67 is the cloth that was used on the Blackface transitional amps. Your cloth has the Turquoise thread but it's the second version that Fender switched to around mid 68 and continued to use through 73. Your cloth has been changed by a previous owner no doubt. I will post the two versions again so you can see the differences.

First version Silverface Grill Cloth

roadhog96

USA / CT.

Apr 24th, 2016 08:00 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

The second version cloth looks more brown when it ages due to the amount of lighter off white thread in the cloth as compared to the earlier version which had more Black thread.

Second Version Silverface Grill Cloth

roadhog96

USA / CT.

Apr 24th, 2016 08:07 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I believe I have some photos of several of these transitional Blackface amps in a folder on my computer which I rarely use these days. I do just about everything on my iPad. But yah I know I have them along with tons of Fender stuff.

Biggie Stardust

New England

Apr 24th, 2016 08:21 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Thank you all for your help!

Roadhog96, those comparison photos are helpful. The grill cloth on mine does look like the 2nd version.

I'm starting to wonder if someone just screwed in a different baffle board with the updated grill cloth because the inside screws attached to the baffle board on the inside of the amp do look less aged then the rest of the screws on the head. Hence, the black staples on the grill cloth. Just a guess though.

Honestly, I didn't even recognize this about the amp until recently. It came up because I had the amp in the shop while I was working on finishing a new speaker cabinet for it. I ordered and installed the older black, white and silver grill cloth for the cabinet and noticed the difference when I got my amp head out of the shop.

(This message was last edited by Biggie Stardust at 10:22 PM, Apr 24th, 2016)

roadhog96

USA / CT.

Apr 24th, 2016 08:28 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Well it either had the cloth replaced or the entire baffle. One way you might be able to tell would be to remove the baffle and see if there are double set of screw holes were it would mount to the cab. I don't think Fender was that critical when it came to drilling the screw holes for the baffle. If it came from a different amp and different time period I doubt the holes would match exactly.
If it were me I'd change the grill cloth to match the new cab, it would look classier if they matched.

(This message was last edited by roadhog96 at 10:36 PM, Apr 24th, 2016)

slider313

NC

Apr 24th, 2016 08:55 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Definitely not original. Again, the amps tube chart shows "PC" for March of 1966 and silverface grillcloth didn't exist at that time.

roadhog96

USA / CT.

Apr 24th, 2016 08:59 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic


Definitely not original. Again, the amps tube chart shows "PC" for March of 1966 and silverface grillcloth didn't exist at that time.

Good point, case closed.

Biggie Stardust

New England

Apr 24th, 2016 10:04 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Cool! Good to know.

As Roadhog96 suggested, I may just replace the grill cloth on the head with some of the left over BF style cloth I have from the speaker cabinet project and make it look period original.

(This message was last edited by Biggie Stardust at 12:05 AM, Apr 25th, 2016)

roadhog96

USA / CT.

Apr 25th, 2016 08:55 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Here's a picture of a Transitional Blackface with the first version cloth. This is my favorite Silverface cloth and is the rarest of the two Turquoise styles. Like I said I've seen many of these Transitional amps over the years so they did exist. Sorry I never bought a few I actually like the look.

Transitional Blackface

(This message was last edited by roadhog96 at 11:02 AM, Apr 25th, 2016)

FDP Forum / Fender Amps: Vintage (before 1985) / Black face amp with silver face grill cloth? Original?




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