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FDP Forum / Miscellaneous and Non-Fender Topics / Uni-Vibe in SRV (and others) Songs?

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RMosack

USA

Go Buckeyes!
Mar 2nd, 2016 01:47 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I have a pretty good feel for the really obvious Uni-Vibe use in various classic songs over the years:
Hendrix - Machine Gun
Robin Trower - Bridge of Sighs and others
Pink Floyd - a bunch of them

But one thing I've often wondered is if certain songs get their distinctive tone from subtle use of Uni-Vibe, or if it's something else altogether. This applies to a few artists, but especially Stevie Ray.

Lenny - Is he just doinking the vibrato bar or is there some slight U-Vibe going on there?

Riviera Paradise - Same story as above.

Little Wing - This one seems even more like there's something there.

I suppose Yellow Ledbetter from Pearl Jam has that same tone.

Is that all Uni-Vibe?


5Strats
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Edmond/OKC

AXE VICTIM
Mar 2nd, 2016 01:53 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

To my knowledge, SRV never used a univibe live or on any recordings. He used Leslie cabinets for the modulations sounds he did use.

Note - There is no univibe on Hendrix's recording of Little Wing, just some brief Leslie effect in one part of the song. I don't think there's any univibe on Pearl Jam's Yellow Ledbetter either.

Lenny is just straight Strat into clean '64 Vibroverb or something similar.

Peegoo
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Eat. Sleep. Guitar.

Repeat
Mar 2nd, 2016 01:59 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Yep. Leslie. Lenny is leaning on the bar throughout the tune. Watch him play it live, and he's on the bar like Jeff Beck.

Modal Magic
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MBJ, Highway Hound.

You Can't Bend It Aussie!
Mar 2nd, 2016 06:27 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

The Little Wing solo also has a subtle tape flanging effect (by physically manipulating the tape flange) in addition to the rotary effect.

RMosack

USA

Go Buckeyes!
Mar 2nd, 2016 10:42 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Thanks.

DrKev
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Irishman in Paris

Forget Tone - go with Note Choice
Mar 3rd, 2016 02:29 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Yep to the above. Lenny and Riviera paradise is just whammy bar. SRV is said to have used Fender Vibratone cabs for Cold Shot and Couldn't Stand the Weather. They were basically single speaker Leslie cabs (i.e. without the rotating treble horn). The Univibe is often cited as being a Leslie Cab simulation.

My Dad had a Model 125 Leslie cab, and I can tell you that playing Cold Shot through that was a joy! It was furniture though, not a joy to transport and that anybody might prefer a Univibe for day to day use is no surprise.

Lynxtrap

Way Out East

Mar 3rd, 2016 09:15 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

David Gilmour has used a Leslie and other "rotating speaker" cabs since the early 70's, but it is not always so obvious since it is mixed pretty low.
I guess the univibe stands out more, like on some tracks on Dark Side.

rfrakes331K
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IL USA

RonHalen Jokingly He Says
Mar 3rd, 2016 10:03 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Eric Clapton'song It'seems in the way that you use it.

(This message was last edited by rfrakes331K at 05:58 PM, Jul 12th, 2017)

Steve Dallman
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Merrill, Wisconsin

Age is just a number...mine is big
Mar 4th, 2016 10:11 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

The Univibe is a crude, 4 stage phase shifter. It differs from other 4 stage phase shifters in that the stages use different input coupling caps which results in only the high mids and mids getting all 4 stages of phase shifting. As frequencies go lower, the amount of phase shifting decreases. I've never been a fan, even when they first came out.

Tape flanging, which can be very deep and dramatic, and use of a Leslie, for live was out of the question for most artists. Lesies were heavy, expensive and for guitar required custom interfaces. Tape flanging was a technique in the studio.

Before time shifting bucket brigade chips came out, phase shifting was the early attempt to simulate a Leslie or tape flanging. It does poorly at both. The notches and peaks created by phase shifting doesn't come close to the doppler effect and pitch shift and three dimensional soundscape of a real leslie.

Even today, as far as we've come, the best Leslie simulators can simulate side to side motion, but not the front to back, up and down motion of a real Leslie, not to mention the bouncing off the walls, floors and ceiling. Admittedly, recordings miss most of this too.

But today's simulators do a far better job than does the crude phase shifting of a Univibe.

Tape flanging is another matter. Two syncronized, servo speed controlled tape recorders with the same information recorded (like a guitar track) are played together.

The engineer touches his thumb to the flange of one of the tape decks for an instant, which slows that deck down, dropping the pitch and speed of the guitar track on that deck.

The servo speeds the reel back up, overshoots the other deck for split second, before it settles back in sync with the other deck. This is repeated for the whole part or song.

There is a randomness to this, as the engineer touches the flange at different times and for varying amounts of time, as we are not perfect machines.

With bucket brigade chips and later digital delay, we can slow the speed and pitch and speed it back up, but unlike tape flanging, it is not random, varying and cannot go ahead of the guitar being played, unless the straight guitar is statically delayed (called "through zero flanging.") While there have been a couple through zero flangers made, they are rare, and still do not have randomness to their low frequency oscillators.

So on stage the Univibe was used to simulate this complex and deep studio technique...but pretty badly. But in the din of a 60's or 70's rock band, who could tell? Who cared?

I played in a country band in the mid 70's. Our guitar player, a 50 year old Indian, used a Twin Reverb and a Fender Vibratone. It was glorious, and he knew how to use it, with his Telecaster Thinline.

He got sick of carrying two big boxes around, so he traded the Vibratone (which was a single rotor, two speed Leslie) in on the best Phase shifter made at that time.

Yuk. The downgrade in tone was humongous. It was a second generation Mutron Phase Shifter, and although it was a worthy effect in it's own right, it could not compare to a Leslie...and didn't.

I told Maurice, if I had known, I'd have built a Fender preamp and power amp into his Vibratone so he'd only have to carry one. He shrugged.

I bought a Vibratone in 1980 for $100 in honor of Maurice Big John. I still have it.

5Strats
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Edmond/OKC

AXE VICTIM
Mar 4th, 2016 10:45 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Sorry to disagree, but regardless of any crude elements, the univibe has a unique sound that sounds great, assuming its used for "that" sound, not to get Leslie sounds.

Hendrix, Trower and others got some amazing sounds out of the univibe.

pombrio

USA

Mar 4th, 2016 11:18 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I think part of the beauty of the Uni-Vibe is that it failed at being a portable Leslie. And that failure created an entirely new and exciting sound. And the fact that it arrived at the same time as someone like Mr. Hendrix certainly didn't hurt.

5Strats
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Edmond/OKC

AXE VICTIM
Mar 4th, 2016 03:25 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Machine Gun" by Hendrix from the Band of Gypsies album is close to a religious experience. This is the ultimate univibe song IMHO.

walshb
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Manchester, TN

12,423 Mustangs passed and counting
Mar 6th, 2016 04:12 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Sorry to disagree, but regardless of any crude elements, the univibe has a unique sound that sounds great, assuming its used for "that" sound, not to get Leslie sounds."

I agree, it's one of my favorite effects, when used in the right situation. Hendrix, Trower, Floyd etc.

ED P

US

Mar 7th, 2016 05:03 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Sorry to disagree, but regardless of any crude elements, the univibe has a unique sound that sounds great, assuming its used for "that" sound, not to get Leslie sounds."

"I agree, it's one of my favorite effects, when used in the right situation. Hendrix, Trower, Floyd etc."

I will jump in on the Univibe love-fest as well. it makes for some really pretty sounds.

I have a Dunlop silver metal cased univibe, which is my favorite tone wise, though it's large on a pedal board. Also have a Voodoo labs microvibe, which uses the lightbulb circuit, but is missing some highs that the Dunlop has.

Also recently added a TC Electronic Viscous vibe in my quest for a smaller Univibe on the pedalboard. It really nails the Hendrix Machinegun sound with a Tube Screamer after it, but sadly, despite claiming to be "True Bypass", it has a very noticeable effect on tone when off, making it a no go for my pedalboard.


5Strats
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Edmond/OKC

AXE VICTIM
Mar 7th, 2016 07:00 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

You couldn't even buy a vibe pedal for many years, until Dunlop came out with the Rotovibe in the later 80's.

I recall using a phase shifter for Hendrix and Trower stuff back in the 70's and it just wasn't up to snuff.

Peegoo
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Eat. Sleep. Guitar.

Repeat
Mar 7th, 2016 07:13 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

To me, a two-track stereo recording cannot capture all the nuances of a Leslie's tone.

The Univibe (and Rotovibe, Ventilator, etc.) on record does a passable approximation of the Leslie. In a live situation however, nothing comes close to The Real Thing.

pombrio

USA

Mar 7th, 2016 07:18 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Bummed to hear about the tone issue with the TC Viscous Vibe. I was thinking of ordering one since there are none to try locally but now I'll wait.

RMosack

USA

Go Buckeyes!
Mar 11th, 2016 09:47 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Viscous Vibe sounds interesting.

I absolutely love Gilmour's vibe tones on the Dark Side of the Moon album and on Shine On You Crazy Diamond.

I have a Rotovibe and dig its tones, but it's so darn big for the pedalboard. Thus, I began a quest for an affordable and pedalboard friendly Uni-Vibe.

I used a coupon on an Electro-Harmonix Good Vibrations. Meh. Too thumpy. Sent it back.

I got a good deal on a Digitech Ventura Vibe. I still have it. It's versatile. But it never gets enough swirly depth.

I got an Earthquaker Devices The Depths. It's a cool pedal - plus I'm biased towards a NE Ohio company - but it's not a vintage sounding vibe.

I know there are some killer choices out there that cost a bundle (Dry Bell out of Croatia and a tube model whose nane escapes me out of the UK), but I've been reluctant to pull the trigger.

Maybe the TC Electronic model is viable. I hadn't yet checked out any digital models. Hmmm...

5Strats
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Edmond/OKC

AXE VICTIM
Mar 12th, 2016 06:10 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I have the TC Electronic Viscous vibe on my pedal board and think its a great sounding unit.

The other vibes I own are an original Rotovibe, Lovepedal Picklevibe and Danelectro Cool Cat Vibe.

The Danelectro is a really good vibe pedal.

pombrio

USA

Mar 12th, 2016 07:36 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

5Strats, have you noticed any tone suck when your Viscous Vibe is off? I've found a used one that I've been thinking about.

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FDP Forum / Miscellaneous and Non-Fender Topics / Uni-Vibe in SRV (and others) Songs?




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