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FDP Forum / Performer's Corner / !!!TOO LOUD!!!

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6 Cylinder Slim

New England

Shoes for Industry
Mar 6th, 2012 07:27 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

There's two different mixes. Stage mix and front mix. The front mix and overall volume out front differs depending on the type of club and style of music. There, the customer is always right, but for stage volume, I want to hear a good tone from my guitar amp and vocal monitor. I don't ever want to hear about boosting mids and "cutting through the mix". I have a 30w amp pointed right at my head set to a nice, full bodied tone with the volume set to 5 at the most. this is the tone I want to hear when I play and the tone I want to project to the audience. If the band is so loud on stage that my amp is getting masked over and all I hear is a crappy, thin sound, the band is too loud and I've got a problem. Same for the vocal monitor. No, I don't want it EQed like a 300w telephone. That might be OK for some, but not for me. If a band can't manage their stage volume at least most of the time, I'm gone.

(This message was last edited by 6 Cylinder Slim at 09:01 AM, Mar 6th, 2012)

Standard24

San Antonio, Texas

Mar 6th, 2012 02:10 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Why have amps onstage at all? Queen never did, and they were semi-successful...

Amp modelers, combined with in-ear monitors, keep the stage volume way down, and each player gets the mix he wants in his ears. (I use a $20.00 Behringer headphone amp, a Pod Pro, and Klipsch ear buds... sounds awesome).

If your stage volume is that loud, I'll bet your audience is being blasted.

6 Cylinder Slim

New England

Shoes for Industry
Mar 6th, 2012 03:43 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Sure there's all kinds of technical ways to lower stage volume. IE monitors, fake drums, plastic shields ect, but it is possible to play traditional instruments and fit your volume to the room you're playing in. Musicians have been doing it for years.

rvwinkle
Contributing Member
**********
*****

Twin Cities, USA

Land of Sky Blue Waters
Mar 6th, 2012 05:13 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

This is difficult problem. An arms race usually ensues.

Insist in playing and singing at reasonable volume. If your band mates complain, tell them that they are playing too loud.

If you get fired from the band, you will have the solace in the knowledge in knowing you were doing the job at the best of your ability.

Lee

Peegoo
Contributing Member
**********
**********

That chicken

is WRONG, baby.
Mar 6th, 2012 06:01 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

If you can't communicate (have a conversation) with band members onstage while chugging along, it's too loud.

Volume discipline is one of several important factors associated with being a pro.

Fast Lane Pablo

USA

Mar 6th, 2012 08:19 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

In my trio I'm blessed to play with a bass player and drummer who know how to use volume for dynamics, but keep it under control. I rarely use an amp that's more then 22 watts.

MLC
Contributing Member
**********

It's not just good..

...it's good enough.
Mar 6th, 2012 09:19 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"I rarely use an amp that's more then 22 watts."

Yeah, I use a Deluxe Reverb (22w) and/or a Gibson Goldtone GA15-RV (15w) and we've got drums, bass, 2 guitars, and keys - including a Hammond B3. Fortunately, we're all band veterans and we make it a priority to keep things clear and balanced.

It really comes down to everyone in the band choosing to be reasonable and working together to manage the sound. If you've got a couple guys who want to play the volume war game, the overall sound will suffer.

avsalesman

Australia

'scuse me while I kiss the sky.
Mar 7th, 2012 06:32 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I would say a lot of this volume problem has to do with deaf drummers. Seriously, our drummer is an absolute powerhouse, not only plays very well but very loud, we (2nd gtr, bass and keys) in turn have to be at a certain level that (for me) requires the use of ear plugs. I would rather not but tinnitus is no joke.
He is deaf as a post.

Drummers out there, hit em softer!

jbryan

Minneapolis

Mar 8th, 2012 08:56 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Are you guys micing the guitars? If so, you can certainly "downsize" all the guitar amps if these guys are hauling in their Marshall Stacks...the new trend is small, low wattage amps or modeling amps. You mentioned you point your 30watt amp at you and put it on 5. It's basically your personal guitar monitor- which is how it should be done! The members on the opposite side of the stage should be hearing you through their MONITOR, not from your amp across the stage! Then it will always be too loud. Drummers too have a part in this. If your drummer can't quiet down, have him use different sticks (those make a HUGE Difference), or put him behind a plexiglass shield. But the small guitar amp mic'd and put through the monitor mix will def help you a ton!! Even in small clubs. It's all about CONTROL of the sound. Your FOH mix will also benefit. I have to believe that your Stage Mix must be bleeding out to the FOH mix which makes everything muddy sounding and louder for your audience. Two things that aren't good. Hope you can all fix the problem! Best of Luck!

5Strats
Contributing Member
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***

Edmond/OKC

Chasing Sanity
Mar 8th, 2012 09:01 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Whether our amps (and the drums) are mic'd depends on the venue.

Our rhythm guitarist/lead singer's 60-watt combo is the main cause of the volume issue. I may have to buy him a tilt stand in order to get some relief.

I tilt my combos back to (1) hear myself better and (2) not create issues with the soundman.

9fingers
Contributing Member
*****

Floe, WV

A few BIG notes!
Mar 8th, 2012 09:44 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"Our rhythm guitarist/lead singer's 60-watt combo is the main cause of the volume issue. I may have to buy him a tilt stand in order to get some relief."

Amen to that. The backs of the knees don't hear so good. One of the tilt stands that gets the amp up couple feet AND tilts it up about triples what the player can actually hear from it.

MLC
Contributing Member
**********

It's not just good..

...it's good enough.
Mar 8th, 2012 10:15 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"I may have to buy him a tilt stand in order to get some relief."

+2

Our other guitarist uses a 2x12 combo that I think is around 80 watts. But he always tilts it or gets it up high enough to hear it (and I always to the same) so we have no trouble balancing it with my 15-20 watt amps.

shunka
Contributing Member
****

Willoughby, OH , USA

I'm arrogant and a moron
Mar 8th, 2012 11:51 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Larely I've noticed that a lot of amps are either off to the side of the stage and aimed across it or behind the player and tilted up. Nearly straight up sometimes.

Gene O.
Contributing Member
**

Canton, Ohio, USA

Mar 8th, 2012 11:53 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

After reading this, I decided to dial down my stage rig for this Saturday's gig. Hopefully everyone else will follow.

DPH

Massachusetts, USA

Mar 8th, 2012 12:37 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

"I rarely use an amp that's more then 22 watts."

You are a lucky man. I recently bought a mod’ed Vibrolux with the hope that it could replace my 65lb Twin. The Vibrolux sounded quite good, but didn’t have the clean headroom to be heard on top of our very loud and very deaf keyboard player + a horn section so I had to sell it.

5Strats
Contributing Member
**********
***

Edmond/OKC

Chasing Sanity
Mar 8th, 2012 12:48 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

DHP - The '59 Bassman LTD (50 watts) weighs 53 lbs and the '63 Vibroverb RI (40 watts) weighs 45 lbs.

These are the two combos I gig with and they're plenty loud and don't weigh a ton.

stinger22

USA

Mar 8th, 2012 01:17 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Had a BDRI that I fought volume for a long time even going to an effects loop volume box. Finally got a DRRI which is very manageable and a Mustang III which again is very manageable. Our problem was the other guitar player and his Mesa Boogies which he turned up enough to get the tubes to distort. We struggled at practice and finally told him we should BOTH turn our amps away from everyone. That helped but gigging was still a problem. Then about a month ago we were playing a routine gig we have and the woman who owns the place screamed out at him 'turn the MFer down!!!'. He finally got the message and went out and trade one of his Mesa's for a DRRI for gigs and a Frontman for practice and a couple of other goodies. Way better now.

Gene O.
Contributing Member
**

Canton, Ohio, USA

Mar 8th, 2012 01:50 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Yep. I'm taking the Mustang III to the gig this Saturday. The other guitarist plays a HR Deville 212, and I doubt that he'll change.

jbryan

Minneapolis

Mar 9th, 2012 09:17 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Shunka mentioned something I forgot to say- I always tilt my Mustang III back on this cool little tripod amp stand I bought. It folds up and fits in the back cavity of either my M III or my Classic 30. Holds up to 80 pounds too! And we always direct the gutiar amps cross stage- not facing the audience!!! Major faux pas IMO! Drives soundment crazy, and if not tilted back, well, as mentioned, your ears are not at kneed level! If you crank it up to hear it that way, across the stage it will be piercing!! So, put the amps on the side of the stage. Mic the amps. Tilt the amps. And put the guitar through the monitor mix! Your issues will be resolved!

BTW Gene O., your Mustang III will give that Hot Rod Deville 212 a good run for its money! Believe me :) Not trying to cause volume wars but you will have the juice to do battle with if need be with that Mustang!

Gene O.
Contributing Member
**

Canton, Ohio, USA

Mar 9th, 2012 09:20 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Yeah, I think it'll do just fine. :)

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