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FDP Forum / The 'Pup' Tent / urban legend or fact?
(This message was last edited by Alan0354 at 07:53 PM, Jan 8th, 2012)
(This message was last edited by blackstrat at 04:41 AM, Jan 11th, 2012)
FDP Forum / The 'Pup' Tent / urban legend or fact?
blackstrat
USAJan 6th, 2012 05:32 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Did Stevie Ray Vaughan have a dummy coil under the hood of his #1?
I have read a few times where people have claimed this, but don’t remember seeing it in a you tube video they did when the Fender Guys took #1 apart to make those limited run replicas.
hpete
Contributing Member
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USAJan 6th, 2012 07:27 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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It really doesn't make any sense for someone to insist on vintage pup's and then modify the circuit with an added coil. The coil would change everything that matters to the tone of the guitar.
Modal Magic
Contributing Member
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MBJ, Highway Hound.
You Can't Bend It Aussie!Jan 7th, 2012 12:09 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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From “Guitar and Bass Classics- Fender Electric Guitar Bible”, an article titled “The SRV Files” which describes the dismantling of No 1 by Fender VIPs including Richard McDonald, George Blanda Jr and Mike Eldred to build accurate replicas-
‘…The pickups seem to be stock ‘63s, but they put some shielding tape around them which lowers the inductance of the pickup. Control pots were standard for the era. The original three-way switch was replaced with a five-way.’
‘Yeah,’ adds Cruz, ‘one of the most challenging things about this guitar was those pickups. Basically they were stock but really weak, and we noticed that the neck pickup had a bit more resistance then the others. It wasn’t until the covers came off that the guys spotted the shielding around the pickups, so we went to the degree of doing that for the tribute. Most people will never see this stuff – but it’s something extra, the kind of thing you’ll be paying for’
Verbatim from the article.
blackstrat
USAJan 8th, 2012 07:25 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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THANKS "Modal Magic!"
Alan0354
Calif, USJan 8th, 2012 07:44 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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It's him that make the sound. Give him a MIM strat and he'll sound just as good.
People don't realize the person behind the guitar has everything to do with the sound, the gear is the final touch as an extension of the artist.
If you have the original gear of SRV and play, you are not going sound even close unless you are just as good. Still, if you are at that level, you're going to have your own personality different from SRV.
Stop imitating others and practice hard, find your own sound that resonate with you. You think it's that easy to get your own sound?
Alan0354
Calif, USJan 8th, 2012 07:50 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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I can't get over people think if they get the same gear of their idle, they'll sound like them!!! You know how many hours a day, how many days a week, how many months, how many years a good guitarist has to practice away from the lime light to perfect their sound. You really think just use the same gear and you be there?!!!
Maybe you want to use the excuse not to practice!!!! Most of the people don't even have what it takes to get there unless they spent years of hard practice. AND at that, you still need to have what it takes to rise to that level. Most people are not born with that gift. If you are not up for that, don't even talk about sound.
Get yourself a MIA strat, an old Bassman of something used. If you don't sound like SRV, ASK WHAT YOU DID WRONG, WHAT YOU ARE MISSING AND DO YOU HAVE WHAT IT TAKES.
Don't know any other way to put it.
stratcowboy
Contributing Member
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USA/Taos, NMJan 8th, 2012 08:07 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Relax...he was only asking a technical question.
Alderandash
Contributing Member
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QLD AustraliaJan 9th, 2012 02:13 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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black strats always sound better...:)
SMark
Atlanta, GA USA
"Life is good when you love your tone."Jan 9th, 2012 10:34 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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blackstrat already has great tone. He doesn't need to sound like SRV or anyone other than himself. I really doubt that he was seeking tone tips...
strayedstrater
Contributing Member
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Garland, TX
vintage RCA output transistorsJan 9th, 2012 11:11 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Stevie and Cesar were both mad tinkerers, and you can fit a dummy coil into a Strat control cavity without routing anything. I really wouldn't be surprised if one of them tried a dummy coil in #1 and then took it out. I can imagine one of them saying something like "one time we even put a dummy coil in trying to reduce the noise" in an interview, implying that it was a temporary experiment that didn't work out to Stevie's satisfaction. That could easily be misunderstood as suggesting that #1 had a permanent dummy coil installed.
At any rate, there are lots of myths about #1. I have some old SRV interviews where he says the pickups were stock but slightly overwound and hotter than most. Everyone seemed to believe that at the time -- when Fender developed the Texas Special pickups they thought overwound was part of the magic.
(I'm not suggesting that the CS was wrong -- I suspect that #1 was such a ballsy sounding guitar that she fooled Stevie into thinking that the pickups were overwound.)
Stevie got the body/neck/pickup production dates wrong in a lot of interviews too.
Modal Magic
Contributing Member
****
MBJ, Highway Hound.
You Can't Bend It Aussie!Jan 9th, 2012 05:26 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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"I can't get over people think if they get the same gear of their idle, they'll sound like them!!!"
It's called inspiration. Get it were you can— anything that helps motivate to keep on plugging along.
Anyway, not all buy Signature guitars to sound like their idle. Sometimes it's due to an appealing set of features. For example, I have a Robert Cray Strat because it is a hard tail. I appreciate Robert Cray's work immensely, but am not a big fan and have no intention of sounding like him.
Modal Magic
Contributing Member
****
MBJ, Highway Hound.
You Can't Bend It Aussie!Jan 9th, 2012 05:37 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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"I suspect that #1 was such a ballsy sounding guitar that she fooled Stevie into thinking that the pickups were overwound."
No expert here by any means, but I would suggest that a combination of heavy strings, using the amp to AMPLIFY and the use of Tube Screamers is were it's at.
It's pretty easy to get an approximation of a SRV tone by using low output pups such as 57/62's, a clean Fender amp with volume up and a push with a TS808 or TS9. The final ingredient would be if you had Stevie’s soul, coordination and fingers.
Alan0354
Calif, USJan 9th, 2012 06:34 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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"Anyway, not all buy Signature guitars to sound like their idle. Sometimes it's due to an appealing set of features. For example, I have a Robert Cray Strat because it is a hard tail. I appreciate Robert Cray's work immensely, but am not a big fan and have no intention of sounding like him."
I agree. I like hard tail and I went and bought one when I found out they have it in 2001 and I love every bit of it. If they have a new one, I might still consider one more.
It is important to get the gear and pup you want, my point is don't spent too much time keep searching, use the time to practice instead.
blackstrat
USAJan 10th, 2012 05:58 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Yep this was a technical question....been playing for 30 plus years and I definitely have my own sound! LOL! I was just interested in alternatives to noiseless pickups!
I just bought an ISP decimator pedal, which surprisingly kills 60-cycle hum without snipping of high end or killing sustained notes, so I wound up taking that route instead of tinkering with a dummy coil!
didn't really say I wanted to sound like stevie...I just came across an article on dummy coils and this guy claimed stevie had one in #1,,,but every article I have ever read never mentioned this suposid dummy coil...kind of more a curiosity thing than anything.
DrKev
Contributing Member
Irishman in Paris
Forget Tone - go with Note ChoiceJan 14th, 2012 10:14 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Somewhere on my bookshelf I have the Guitar Player magazine collection of all of their articles on SRV up to his death, including the interview with his tech, Rene Martinez, after SRV's death.
The impression I got from it all was that SRV assumed or believed a lot about his guitars that Martinez contradicted or corrected. IIRC, and I think I do, at no point is a dummy coil mentioned. At the end of the day SRV just wanted his guitars to stay reasonably in tune and not break too many strings. Amps and speaker were a huge part of his sound and he cared more about that than he did about pickups or pots or whetever. The internals of his guitars are rarely mentioned and if he liked what he heard, he generally worked with whatever a guitar came with.
And then he strung 'em with the heaviest ropes his fingers could tolerate. On tour, he even went as low as an 11 high-E. (I know, what a wuss!) ;)
Power Trio
West VirginiaJan 16th, 2012 08:49 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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i wish that his tone sucked or even better i wish that i never heard it in the first place. that damn tone is all that ive been striving for in the last 30 years. nothing I do, buy or concockt ever comes close. but its in my head and it prob aint leaving it. so off to PG Shop to look for more pedals.
Alan0354
Calif, USJan 16th, 2012 10:16 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Try this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJNY_ksslCE&feature=player_embedded
This is Tex Mex pup, with tube screamer and a little Blues Jr.
6 Cylinder Slim
New England
Shoes for IndustryJan 21st, 2012 09:31 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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I think it's perfectly rational to wonder about how different guitarists get their sound. There is a gear aspect to it besides playing technique. It's always good to be inspired by music and to experiment with different sounds. Lots of times I'll hear some guitarist with a sound I like and wonder: What's he using to get that sound? I wonder what I could do with it? A whole separate issue from playing technique.
rfrakes331K
Contributing Member
USA
RonHalen Jokingly He SaysFeb 7th, 2012 01:16 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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I have long felt that if I could play on SRV's ore Pink Floyds rig, it would get me close to their sound. At this point I can visualize how to play some of their songs. I am an amateur. When a teen, I took a real to real tape machine and slowed down the motor so I could pick aprt a couple of Frampton songs. Peter was just to fast for me to play with to figure it out. This also helped.
Rick Plays The Blues
Austria
May I try that again?Feb 7th, 2012 09:24 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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blackstrat is imho completely right in asking and got good answers anyway. I myself would think it is very interesting, if the SRV sound was possible to achieve with a dummy coil, as this is a contradiction in my book and would have had to rethink my opinion on that.
Having said that, I'd like to add that the more you know about equipment, the better you can find your own way. Knowing a lot about the guitar rigs that produced famous guitar sounds definitely helps than knowing every detail of your neighbors rig (except it is EC himself ... :)
There is not even anything wrong about playing signature gear, imho.
Most everybody of us knows and has experienced, how much it helps whenever you learn to play a song correctly - your tone gets closer to the original worth thousands of bucks of gear.
As long as you know about this, it is not a problem I think. If someone thinks it is all in the gear, he or she should be warned however.
And about copying others - Alan0354 - calm down please. Many great guitarists found their way by originally copying others. Not to mention Mr. EC :)
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