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FDP Forum / Fender Bass Guitars and Bass Amps / Tele bass Mudbucker placement - why there?
(This message was last edited by mib at 03:24 PM, Jul 26th, 2010)
FDP Forum / Fender Bass Guitars and Bass Amps / Tele bass Mudbucker placement - why there?
barry.b
Contributing Member
australiaJul 24th, 2010 08:16 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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I dragged out my poor old Tele bass the other day to use for a while... and got to thinking.
why did they put the humbucker where they did - close to the neck? Why not further towards the bridge where the first version of Tele basses had the single coil, or where the split-P p'up lives on a Precision?
I've got a theory:
sales of the Tele bass were poor for the first version. The humbucker second version is a "me too" product. Influenced by the switch to humbuckers for Telecaster guitars (slimline, etc), meant a humbucker for a Tele bass made some sense.
The p'up placement was a direct result of trying to compete with Gibson's EB basses, with it's humbucker near the neck (early 60's EB-0's and late 60's EB-3's) which all had a neck pickup just next to the neck.
just an idle theory, please feel free to shoot down in flames.
earthquakemurphy
Jaffrey, NH, USA
Proud to be a Bottomfeeder!Jul 25th, 2010 01:58 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Barry,
HMM! I was thinking that maybe that's the place to get the most mud! Seriously, though, I would tend to agree with the comparison to the Gibson EB-0. Right at the neck. The EB-0 was a popular bass (at least around here) back then and Fender didn't have any Humbucker basses. Maybe they just took a cue from Gibson. That's my opinion anyway. Still wouldn't get rid of my '68 Telebass though!
'quake
bassilisk
Contributing Member
New York City, USAJul 26th, 2010 07:48 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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When I got my Tele in '70 (brand new) I didn't have the background about it - I just knew it looked the coolest to me and I wanted it. After finally having it in my hands I was baffled as to why it didn't sound like my friend's Precision that had a huge bass tone (I was a youngster so bear with me). Looking around for "rockers on record" I saw that a common mod was to add a Gibson mudbucker for the bass tone that wasn't there. The light bulb went off and of course, so did I - that's a story for another day. I always thought this might have been noticed and finally built in - don't add their mudbucker, buy one with ours.
But I'd bet it was completely in line with your theory due to Fender luring Seth Lover away from Gibson to design their "me too" humbuckers for the guitars. Since they were in humbucker mode, what better way to "me too" one of their basses than to add one and put it right where Gibson put theirs. After all, imitation is the highest form of flattery...
Twangmeister
Contributing Member
***
Playing passably
for over 50 years!Jul 26th, 2010 08:40 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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This past weekend I was talking to a fellow bassplayer about the Tele bass and the mudbucker's pickup location. We both agreed that the pickup location was influenced by Gibson's EB basses.
mib
The CoastJul 26th, 2010 03:23 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Jack Bruce?
Tele295
Contributing Member
********
St. Somewhere
DjangofestiveJul 26th, 2010 03:45 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Anybody ever made a Tele bass copy with a mudbucker in roughly the same spot as a split coil P?
LeonB
Contributing Member
**
North of Philly
Solid state = solid sound+light weightJul 26th, 2010 10:38 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Tele295, no, but I had a modded 61J with an EB3 pickup set that sounded really good to me.
rwb
Contributing Member
***
Canada
The Plankster of LoveJul 26th, 2010 11:41 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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I wonder if the decision to change to a humbucking had more to do with the fact that we were all playing through massive amps (no PA support for most situations back then) and the BUZZ from the single coils was often a huge headache.... ? Maybe they then positioned the pickup for the above mentioned reasons... maximum bottom end... LOL
barry.b
Contributing Member
australiaJul 27th, 2010 07:43 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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"Maybe they then positioned the pickup for the above mentioned reasons... maximum bottom end"
but it's not (in my opinion). I really don't think the placement of the pickup enhances the fundamental of the string more than, say, closer to the bridge where the split-P is.
to my ears, it seems to give an over-the-top bias to the second and third harmonic.
Mind you, it could just be that the humbucker pickup fails to adequately reproduce low frequencies.
I've just had another night playing R&B with it, and it's just not cutting the mustard. I can't seem to shake that one (great) sound I used to get with it while playing punk/grunge, even playing with flats instead of rounds.
eb2jim
usa
boomJul 27th, 2010 09:17 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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No question this was a shot at getting into the then-popular (if briefly popular) Gibson/Jack Bruce vibe, and possibly what they may have suspected was related in the underground popularity of Starfire basses around that time. And both those stuck the pup right up at the end of the fretboard, originally I suspect to cut down on high end and emulate an upright. Mind you by the time they did add this, that was already waning a bit. And there were a few people out there adding mudbuckers to Fenders, like John McVie, so it was possibly something that they thought they might offer, like the fretless P. The Fender mudbucker doesn't sound like a Gibson though, and it really defeats any growl and snap that you should be able to do on a 34" Fender, so it does make for a less versatile bass. I think most preferred the pre-72 single coil. The post-71 bass was popular with country bands though, and it would be a good choice for that. And it was quiet around stage lights!
Steve Dallman
Contributing Member
***
Merrill, Wisconsin
Shoot, Winter's over already?Jul 27th, 2010 05:35 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Check this version of the Mudbucker. I'd love to hear this one.
Tom Gallo
Contributing Member
*******
GoobervilleJul 27th, 2010 07:47 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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It's only a mudbucker if you want it to be. I knew a guy who played Yes on his Tele bass. Sounded great and didn't sound like mud at all.
Gregwattabe
ChicagoJul 27th, 2010 08:42 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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"Anybody ever made a Tele bass copy with a mudbucker in roughly the same spot as a split coil P?"
I recently saw where a guy on TB bought the Squier Vintage Modified version and stuck another one of those 'buckers in the bass--can't recall if it was in the split-coil P position or further back, but it sounded pretty good to my ears.
mroulier
Contributing Member
***
Suburban MD.
Ask me about my BlowCoat(tm)!Jul 28th, 2010 12:57 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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I asked the same question on the Tele forum. Didn't get any clear answers other than "the middle position worked well", but this was definitely the same era. And without a bridge pickup to balance it out on the basses, seems like a bad idea.
bassilisk
Contributing Member
New York City, USAJul 28th, 2010 01:49 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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"... possibly what they may have suspected was related in the underground popularity of Starfire basses around that time."
Just a note - the original Starfires were using Hagstrom Bi-Sonics and those were single coils. I have a Haggy Coronado IV with a couple of those and they're pretty far removed from humbuckers. They are very hot and and versatile. The Dark Stars are based on them. The Coronado has very limited EQ (2 pushbuttons) but it can get pretty bright, even in the neck position.
eb2jim
usa
boomJul 28th, 2010 09:15 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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A decent note, and a side note to that is that the Guild designed humbucker that replaced it is not an overtly muddy pickup either. Tone is subjective, but in my experience the Guild humbucker is a decent if unique sounding pickup, and a better sounding pup than the Fender mudbucker, which is a fairly nasal sounding thing for high end. But again, with the Starfire, the majority of them came with the single pup up at the end of the fretboard. While both versions are capable of more high end than the Gibson, and the Tele mudbucker, the placement was to de-emphasize the highs, and emulate the vibe of a double bass. Guild did offer an option to have the single coil in the lead, which was a pretty usefull option.
rwb
Contributing Member
***
Canada
The Plankster of LoveJul 29th, 2010 10:42 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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+1 What ebjim said...
Dang, you're making me want my old Starfire II back (and it's "available" -- as I sold it to a buddy in 77...and it's under his bed collecting dust. He says if I want it back on indefinite "loan" it's mine.)
< looks in closet full of bass cases, ponders the high cost of divorce > hmmmmm gotta think on dat!! :)
bassilisk
Contributing Member
New York City, USAJul 29th, 2010 11:00 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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eb2jm - +1 on the reason for pickup placement. Here's a pretty good link about the Starfire and its variations. Like you say, note the one with the Bi-Sonic in the lead position. I have no experience with the Guild version humbucker and appreciate your take on it. The few players I knew with Starfires all perved on the Bi-Sonics as the preferable version.
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