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FDP Forum / The 'Pup' Tent / Surprised by Fender Hot Noiseless pups

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Lolo

Canada

Nov 12th, 2008 07:27 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I installed a set of these in my American Strat and was surprised that they do not provide significantly more output than my stock pickups (perhaps a bit more). Also, when playing through my 1975 Princeton Reverb, at high volume, the sound doesn't fart out as much. Everything seems a bit more tight and I feel more "in control" of the overall sound.

Does this make any sense?

SMark
Contributing Member
**

Atlanta, GA USA

"Life is good when you love your tone."
Nov 12th, 2008 09:00 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Yes, but no. Yes because I've made this same observation myself and originally found it surprising that really are not "hot" pups as the name implies. No because they have nearly the same DC resistance spec of the Vintage Noiseless, though the design is certainly different.

Another interesting tidbit on the comparison of these two Fender "Noiseless" pups is that the Hot Noiseless actually has more high-end response than the Vintage Noiseless. It just doesn't seem that way because Fender packages the VN set with those 1 meg pots to make them sound more scratchy.


The Hot Noiseless is just a much better pickup, regardless of the magnets.

Lolo

Canada

Nov 12th, 2008 12:59 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Interesting SMark. How would you explain the fact that my SFPR amp seems "tighter" (less "farty") sounding at high volume with the Hot Noiseless pups than with my stock pups?

SMark
Contributing Member
**

Atlanta, GA USA

"Life is good when you love your tone."
Nov 12th, 2008 01:22 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I would explain it just by saying that Bill Turner knows how to design a great pickup!

:o)

Tap

USA

Nov 13th, 2008 03:35 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Do the Hot Noiseless have more low end than the Vintage Noiseless?

9fingers
Contributing Member
**

Floe, WV

A few BIG notes!
Nov 13th, 2008 05:41 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Hot Noiseless are indeed fine under-the-radar pickups! They perform well clean, with OD & even with downright nasty distortion (and totally quiet!).

Dr. Lo

Canada

Nov 13th, 2008 06:13 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

They are indeed totally quiet... and relatively cheap!!!!

I've never tried the Vintage Noisless, but my Hot Noiseless seem to be tighter in the bass department than my stock USA pups.

B.T.

USA

Nov 13th, 2008 06:59 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Thank you for the generous compliments.

If I went into an explanation as to how the Hot Noiseless works I would probably put you to sleep. Even though I know my stuff I don`t always have a winner. The Hot Noiseless was a labor of love for all guitar players to enjoy, including myself.




9fingers
Contributing Member
**

Floe, WV

A few BIG notes!
Nov 13th, 2008 08:35 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

B.T. - fine job on these - go ahead & "put us to sleep"! I'm very curious.

Single Malt Strat
Contributing Member
*

USA

Nov 13th, 2008 09:03 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I'm with 9fingers on this, BT. Tell all...! Love that honest and authoritative voice, at least in the Beck CS I tried... inspires confidence.

RicOkc

Nicoma Park, OK.

"Let the music do the talking"
Nov 14th, 2008 04:07 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I'm impressed enough with the Hot Noiseless that both of my Strats have them. :)

Eclipse59

FL

Electrical Guitarist
Nov 14th, 2008 11:14 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I think ceramic pickups perform better in the low end--tighter sound. I use a ceramic design pup in the bridge of my Strat. I'll have to try these Hot Noiseless pickups sometime.

Hoodster
Contributing Member
*

Mike in Oregon

U can add dirt, but U can't add clean
Nov 15th, 2008 10:09 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

+3 for Bill to share more details about the Hot Noiseless pups.

I am strongly considering these for my 2001 AmSe.

B.T.

USA

Nov 15th, 2008 06:28 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Well, you take what you have and make it work the best you can. I had the bobbins for the VN`s to work with so the limits were set.

Prior to the HN`s I had already run through a group of prototype VN`s giving me a pretty good idea of the tonal range I could expect from the design. It comes as second nature after doing this for 30 years to visualize what`s needed.

Bobbin dimensions,number of turns, wire guage, educated guesses for resistance,inductance,capacitance can be anticipated before winding. Throw out the math and the theory because the interacting impedances are far too complex to derive. I have a good idea how it will sound being intimatley familiar with most every pickup created since the early fifties.

A stock single coil with AL 5`s has limits. The mag feild is so highly concentrated at the string that it can create signal distortion within the coil, hence Lolo`s farting low end. The coil can`t produce a clean articulate tone when it is saturated with too much input signal.

The HN`s use ceramic mags but the are balanced with the steel poles to spread the mag field through the coil. While the field concentrates at the top of the pole it is actually less than an AL-5 rod. The magnetic field is disseminated through the uneven structure of the steel poles in a unidirectional pattern. The field becomes wider and doesn`t have to rely on being focused only at the top.

This is the primary reason the HN`s behave the way they do, resistance and indutance aside, that`s another balancing act along with the degree of physical distance between the coils and the size of the magnets. There are many factors that have to be considered simultaneously.

Class dismissed for today. Hopefully this helps somewhat. It is very difficult to try to condense all that goes into pickup design by its very nature.



Dr. Lo

Canada

Nov 16th, 2008 11:54 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Very informative Bill - thanks! I gigged with my HN-loaded Strat a couple of evenings ago. It sounded great!

Hoodster
Contributing Member
*

Mike in Oregon

U can add dirt, but U can't add clean
Nov 16th, 2008 10:36 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

This is too cool to have input from the designer--thanks, Bill!

I'm wondering what Bill and HN owners think about tone control wiring. Typically I'm partial to the JV style mid pup wide open set-up (tone controls on neck and bridge). Anyone tried that with the HN's? Any issues about running these noiseless pups wide open, or would it just be personal preference as with a standard single coil?

RicOkc

Nicoma Park, OK.

"Let the music do the talking"
Nov 16th, 2008 10:51 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

Both of my Strats are wired as you described, although one of them has a JB Jr. at the bridge.

I haven't had any problems with running the middle pup wide open (no tone control), it's probably as you stated "a personal preference".

SMark
Contributing Member
**

Atlanta, GA USA

"Life is good when you love your tone."
Nov 16th, 2008 11:51 PM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I wired my set to a single no-load tone pot and had no problems keeping it in the no-load notch with any of the three pups.

My amps are a bit on the dark side too though...

9fingers
Contributing Member
**

Floe, WV

A few BIG notes!
Nov 17th, 2008 08:49 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

I have the Jeff Beck sig Strat with the Hot Noiseless. I have wired in a Deaf Eddie Fatocaster switch (replaces the middle control with a 3 way switch- gives neck & bridge or all 3 pups in parallel and also several seiries combinations - Google Deaf Eddie). It is a simple, reversable mod- the bottom control becomes master tone. The HN's respond very well to this setup. The neck & bridge in parallel get "teleish"- a very useful sound, and the series combos get nice and thick but not too muddy. It stays noiseless throughout.

9fingers
Contributing Member
**

Floe, WV

A few BIG notes!
Nov 17th, 2008 09:02 AM   Edit   Profile   Print Topic   Search Topic

One more- B.T., thanks for the explanation. I have followed your other posts on the FDP and always appreciate your contributions! I "kind of understand" your description of the wider magnetic field and the effect on tone. A good example is Jeff Beck's tone with the Hot Noiseless, with the large degree of Marshall distortion he throws at them, and they still retain clarity & huge well-defined bottom end.

I wonder how the double coil hum cancelling that works so effectively with these pups still manages to retain so much of the "stratty" highs in the Hot Noiseless, while so many of the double coil "noiseless" pups out there fail to retain this "chime" to some degree?

(This message was last edited by 9fingers at 12:51 PM, Nov 17th, 2008)

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FDP Forum / The 'Pup' Tent / Surprised by Fender Hot Noiseless pups




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