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FDP Forum / Amp Mods, Repairs, and Projects / TAD Tubes Question
(This message was last edited by smokestack at 09:53 AM, Aug 16th, 2004)
(This message was last edited by smokestack at 06:35 AM, Aug 17th, 2004)
(This message was last edited by smokestack at 10:01 AM, Aug 18th, 2004)
FDP Forum / Amp Mods, Repairs, and Projects / TAD Tubes Question
Next 20 Messages
socrates
usAug 15th, 2004 04:02 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Has someone compared the two TAD 6L6 variants? They make a long bottle and a short bottle 6L6:
http://www.mojomusicalsupply.com/cgi-bin/mojotone/scan/tf=brand/tf=sku/sf=brand/se=TAD.html
What's the sonic difference?
VintageJon
Contributing Member
**
USA/Austin Tx
Old World Craftsman vs. New World OrderAug 15th, 2004 10:07 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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A good question I asked myself when I became aware of them.
Keep up with "... Current Production"
thread on this forum.
-Jon
socrates
usAug 16th, 2004 07:33 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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VJ - Thx, that string was one of the things that got me curious about the TADs. But it doesn't say much about the differences between the two TAD 6L6 versions. The German website doesn't help much either, saying that the GC "RCA style" short tube has "deep bass," while the WGC "GE style" long tube has "tighter bass." They also suggest that the GC version is good for "rock" music, and recommend the WGC for vintage amps, but they don't say why. (And of course it was the old RCA blackplates that were original equipment in many vintage BF Fenders, so go figure). The originator of the other FDP string tried the GC (RCA version) and lauds the build quality and "clarity" (a second guy trying the GC likes their "picking dynamics"). But evidently neither poster tried the other TAD style. You point out that the TADs you tried (RCA version?) were closely similar to JJs. Anyway, I'm considering trying one of the two TAD types in a 5E5-A and am trying to grasp the difference between the two. Maybe the RCA style is supposed to sound like a NOS RCA "blackplate" (which I think of as warm and middy), while the GE is supposed to sound like NOS GE/Philips, with stronger highs and lows? Anyone tried both types or found any helpful discussion comparing them?
smokestack
u.k
"Edited for bad taste...."Aug 16th, 2004 09:48 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Socrates,
Let me see if I can throw just a little light on it for you.
Firstly, the small bottle 6L6WGC is the GE style tube.
[the use of black plates in both designs confuses some folks I think].
This is the one which is very similar in construction to the Groove Tubes GT6L6GE.[I beleive it may even share a common source for various components.]
I have used this tube for a number of months and love it. It has tight well controlled bass. Not especially extended but charactorful and "ballsy".
The mids are nicely complex with pretty early breakup into a rich crunch. Note seperation is beatifully retained under distortion however, and the tube does not get mushy when pushed hard.
The top end encourages that sweet open "chime". [The "right kind of bright" if you like.]
For me, it's the perfect tube for that just cooking clean with attitude type sound.[Think "tweed" just starting to break up a little].
The larger bottle 6L6GC is the "RCA style" tube.
I haven't used this tube but have heard it in a friend's HRD [the same Fender amp that I use]. It does seem to have much in common with one or two other popular current production tubes like the JJs and genuine Svetlanas [winged "C"].
It has a "big" sound. Deep powerfull extended bass,very open expansive mids and precise articulate treble. It has more of that big "Blackface" bell tone. Headroom is better than the GE type tube. When it does let go, it distorts very smoothly with more rounded mids.
It has a thicker single note sound, better suited to singing lead maybe. It reminded me especially of the Harma 6L6GC STR, which is essentially a matched and graded original Svetlana.
I hope this helps just a little.
They are certainly both excellent tubes.... and are very welcome :^).
socrates
usAug 16th, 2004 10:49 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Smokestack, hey - thanks. It's peculiar that TAD calls its long bottle the "RCA style" and its short bottle the "GE style," when old RCA blackplates are shorter and Sylvania and Philips longer. But anyway. So as between the two, your take is that the long bottle TAD has more headroom and later break-up, as well as more bass, than the short bottle. Your description also makes it sound like the short bottle is more "tweed" and the long more "blackface." (Although of course in a tweed amp, one may want the long bottle for a more headroom and clarity, and in a BF amp, the short bottle may offer earlier break-up and richer mids.) Thanks for your input.
kcp
Contributing Member
West Seneca, NY
KC2DGCAug 16th, 2004 11:12 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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I have both sets, long & short plate TAD 6L6 tubes. Without any measured data & my lack of playing skill I will try to describe what I hear.
I have a HRD & bias at 64ma for clean tone.
3 weeks ago I installed the long plates (GC-STR) which bested the SED winged c I was using. These have rich harmonic content, quiet noise floor, great rock-n-roll & compliment OD pedals. The best new stock I've used.
Last week I installed the short plates (WGC-STR) & noticed they had a very subtle noise floor. My first impression was they are sorta transparent & have more twang for country tunes. I prefer the guitar-cable-amp with these tubes so far.
I changed pups in my stock MIM strat to Kinman AV69's over the weekend. So I will be using the WGC-STR more to break them in & then will A/B them again with the long plates.
So far I like them both. The price of the GC-STR went up from $16.00 to $20.00 each. The WGC-STR was $15.00 each when I bought them from Mojo.
kcp
Contributing Member
West Seneca, NY
KC2DGCAug 16th, 2004 01:16 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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revision:
The GC-STR went up from $15.00 to $20.00 each, I paid $16.00 each for the WGC-STR.
smokestack
u.k
"Edited for bad taste...."Aug 16th, 2004 01:44 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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I'd agree with kcp that the small bottle has more "twang". I think it's a function of the earlier bass roll off as much as anything else.
I'd also agree that you MIGHT want more headroom in a tweed. I prefer that "grind" that a bit of early break up provides for loose ragged Rock N Roll ;^).
I'm not too bothered about what TAD chooses to call it's tubes so long as they do the job.
[I don't think either tube is strictly a re-creation of either of these two famous designs] It's nice to have a choice of genuinely good tubes these days which are readily available and which don't require a second mortgage to finance them .
socrates
usAug 16th, 2004 02:58 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Certainly agree with the latter sentiment. Two things have been bugging me about NOS. First, recently several NOS power tubes (two pair of Philips 6L6GCs) have failed prematurely, and a "matched" eBay pair (Tung Sol 5881s) turned out not to be matched. And generally, yeah, $100+ for a correctly matched pair of good tubes in a gigging amp is alot of money. Second, I'm not convinced that all the tonal differences one can hear between tubes in the shop/at home is audible during a gig in a club with a loud four or five piece band. So am thinking about new production stuff that costs 1/4 as much as NOS.
Smoke: re tweeds, my tweeds are sometimes too much grind at unmiced gigs so often I'm jockeying for a little bit more gain. Example -- both a 5E5 Pro and a GA-20 seem to cap out at about 3 on the volume dial then just distort more (and get buried). Am hoping to avoid that with this 5E5-A.
PS: Glossary - what're "twang" and "noise floor"?
smokestack
u.k
"Edited for bad taste...."Aug 17th, 2004 01:29 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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It's in the nature of tubes to be inconsistant and unreliable, whether brand new current production or NOS.
That's why sourcing them from good suppliers who burn them in properly before matching is the most important consideration when buying tubes. Most of the real bad ones get thrown out this way but there'll still be a few that slip through and go bad a little later.
As regards many NOS tubes. I think most folks are agreed that much of the old stuff was better made and longer lasting.
I often wonder, however, how many of the remaining stock have been around the houses a few times and been thrown out for critical use before we buy them.
Old tubes are worth money and if folks can get away with selling stock that maybe doesn't measure quite right to unsuspecting punters, they will do.
Testing, grading and selecting is the most important thing with tubes from any source. Especially when many of the tubes which potentially have the best sound are amongst the most inconsistant from the factory.[think some JJ/Tesla product]
This is one of the good things about TAD tubes.
We'll still get the odd bad egg but they are well burnt in and trsted prior to matching in a meaningfull way for best performance.
Socrates,
BTW. I think "noise floor" has something to do with loose boards......
and "..the twang's the thang " :^)
kcp
Contributing Member
West Seneca, NY
KC2DGCAug 17th, 2004 07:09 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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The "noise floor" I spoke of is audible noise heard from the speaker with no notes played (a hiss sound, if you will).
IMO, because the WGC-STR is so transparent I would agree with smokestack this is circuit board noise.
This transparency also plainly reveals my poor playing ability/technique, guitar setup, & amp adjustment flaws (a good thing). I spent some time last evening working on all 3. This greatly improved my rendition of B.B. King Blues tone w/ the neck/middle pups & my OD pedals.
Like I said before, I like both the GC-STR & WGC-STR tubes. Be prepared w/ the WGC-STR tubes, what you have (equip/ability) is what you got. The GC-STR is more forgiving.
smokestack
u.k
"Edited for bad taste...."Aug 17th, 2004 08:31 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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LOL,
I meant creaking floor boards .
"floor".."noise"..."loose boards?"..."creak?"
....I'll get my coat ;^(
kcp
Contributing Member
West Seneca, NY
KC2DGCAug 17th, 2004 08:52 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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ROFL, ok smokestack :)
socrates
usAug 17th, 2004 10:18 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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kcp - if I understand you correctly, the WGC reveals poor playing ability/technique, in contrast to the the GC. In other words, the GC makes you sound better. That's pretty big news! That makes the choice easy.
kcp
Contributing Member
West Seneca, NY
KC2DGCAug 17th, 2004 12:09 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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socrates, yes that is correct.
I laid the guitar down 30 years ago & picked it up again in March of this year. I'm older, my fingers are fatter, & I'm struggling to produce clean notes & cords right now.
Because the WGC are so revealing, to be completely satisfied with the WGC, you would have to be a good player.
smokestack
u.k
"Edited for bad taste...."Aug 18th, 2004 01:36 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Not too sure about that.
...I love 'em....and I'm CRAP :^)
socrates
usAug 18th, 2004 05:12 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Well just fooling around there of course. Talked to David Allen of Allen Amps (allenamps.com) who uses TADs. He recommended the short bottle TADs for my 5E5-A. Says he's used several hundred and is very happy with them. He says the taller bottles have more headroom, and thinks of the shorter bottles as more like a 5881. Anyway, I've ordered a pair. Thanks for your thoughts.
smokestack
u.k
"Edited for bad taste...."Aug 18th, 2004 06:00 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Excellent :^)
I'll wait to hear what you think of them.
I think they have a certain "magic" that's hard to describe. I'll be interested to hear your thoughts.
kcp
Contributing Member
West Seneca, NY
KC2DGCAug 18th, 2004 07:44 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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socrates, smokestack, I love the WGCs & will probably keep them in the amp because I can't get over how transparent they are with an ever so slight touch of 6v6 tone. But for now I'm frustrated because I stink as a player at normal rhythm. I only sound good when I slow the tempo way down & concentrate. Before, I was masking my talent with pedals & distortion. Now with my new Kinman pups & the WGCs I prefer the guitar-cable-amp because the tone is there.
Socrates, welcome to the TAD tube club, you will enjoy them.
Big White Tele
Contributing Member
CanadaAug 18th, 2004 10:30 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Try a TAD of Coors in V8, Its great!
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