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FDP Forum / The Chop Shop / Back from NGW
(This message was last edited by Gannet at 06:52 AM, Jul 4th, 2003)
(This message was last edited by odourboy at 10:58 PM, Jul 3rd, 2003)
(This message was last edited by Gannet at 07:27 AM, Jul 4th, 2003)
(This message was last edited by Gannet at 08:51 PM, Jul 4th, 2003)
FDP Forum / The Chop Shop / Back from NGW
Gannet
Contributing Member
**
St. Petersburg, FL
Lounge ProphetJul 3rd, 2003 12:08 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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I'm back from NGW (National Guitar Workshop) Sarasota. Are folks interested in a review? If so, short or long?
Bill Barnard
Contributing Member
USA
Playin' the blues in Gainesville, FLJul 3rd, 2003 12:45 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Yes. Hopefully you had a great time.
odourboy
USA/South Bay Area
Play Slow Learn FastJul 3rd, 2003 02:28 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Absolutely - as long as you want to make it. What class/level did you take?
Purp
Contributing Member
***
San-Ho-Zay CA
I'm just a host for parasitic memesJul 3rd, 2003 03:11 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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I was hoping to read a nice long review, and I get this. Sheesh! ;-)
Gannet
Contributing Member
**
St. Petersburg, FL
Lounge ProphetJul 3rd, 2003 08:07 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Maybe a little bio to set the context. I'm 48, playing seriously about two years. No lessons, but I play a lot, four to six hours a day average. I still suck
I signed up for the "Blues Intensive". NGW describes this as "Open to students of all levels.", so I guess I qualify. :)
If you look in the catalog, you'll see that they offer Blues 1, 2, and 3 at the main campus, and Blues Intensive at all the others. What it amounts to in practice is that, since the satellite campus classes are smaller, they just break the Blues Intensive group up into a beginner and advanced section, and cover the same material as Blues 1/2/3, as appropriate for each group.
The Sarasota version of NGW is held on the campus of New College of Florida. They take over some dorms for classrooms and lodging, and a central building that has an auditorium. Admin functions are in the latter.
Tuition is normally $750, and includes dorm lodging (shared) and food. It's $200 extra for a private room, or a $200 discount if you forego the room and board. I live in St. Petersburg, which is only about 30 miles from Sarasota, so I elected to do the latter. Since my dignity would have required a private room, I figure enduring the hardship of the drive saved me $400. Makes sense, right? So I figured that was a fair budget for my practice amp to take along. :) I ended up with a mint '58 Ampeg Rocket, which KILLED all the other amps at school, I might add. :)
This year the session ran from Saturday to Thursday. The first and last days are effectively half-days, at best, so you get 4 full days of morning to evening programs.
Nine to noon on Saturday is registration and check-in. I got there early, signed up in about 5 minutes, and found a room where I could sit and play. This would turn out to be the last time I would use my amp until the day of the concert.
Lunch is noon to one each day. There's a cafeteria in the student center. If you buy the room & board you get a nametag that gets you free eats, somehow. I just brought crackers and fruit and such from home. And root beer. A lot of root beer. My biggest complaint about the whole deal was the inadequate air conditioning. I sweated so much I destroyed a set of strings in about 3 days. I mean down to black, snag-a-callous, corroded. Yuck.
At one the first day, we all met in the auditorium. Members of the faculty played a little 3-song jam/concert. Then rules, announcements and such, and then they broke us into our groups and we headed off to the dorm buildings with our instructors.
The groups at this years workshop were blues, rock, jazz, acoustic, bass, drums, and some advanced groups with Matt Smith and Dave Martone (I think - some rock shred guy)
So they take all us blues cats to a dorm room. There's about 10 or 11, so it's a tight fit. The instructors do a little talking about what the classes are going to cover and then it's the trial by fire (for us self-conscious beginners). :) They set up a chair, front and center, with a DRRI, a cord, and an overdrive. You got your choice of jam tracks. Count off and hit it. Thankfully, I was one of the last. EVERYONE else who played before me was better than I am, most by heaps. It was painfully obvious what group I would be in (if I should be with these cats at all), but, since the thing seemed to make almost everyone rather uncomfortable, I thought it was only fair I endure it as well. A hazing, if you will. I got stage fright so bad I proceeded to play in a key a major second low. Talk about a freakin train wreck. :)
The group was thereby split into 6 in the "Blues 1" section and the rest in the "Blues 2/3" section. Each group then went with their instructor and headed off to the dorm room where they would spend most of the next few days. My instructor was James Hogan, and I recommend him HIGHLY. An incredible guitarist, excellent instructor, and just all-around Real Nice Guy. If you get a chance to work with him, don't miss it.
We got in class, the usual, little introductions, goals, that sort of thing. James played some for us, and then went over what we would be doing for the rest of the week.
Then the subject of The Song was raised. Part of the deal is that each class is expected to participate in the student concert on the night of the last full day. So, the class has to pick a song, and it behooves you to do so immediately so that you have as much time as possible to work on it. James explained all this and we started discussing The Song. Many classes don't have vocalists, so there are always a lot of instrumentals in the concert. Hence, James said that a song with a vocal would usually go over very well, if anyone in the group could sing. One of our number, Bob, had been in a bar band, off and on, and said he could, and suggested "Walkin' By Myself" "by" Gary Moore. I, of course, spoke up at this point and complained that this was a classic old blues tune, and NOT by some pale young whippersnapper. :)) Anyway, he played it for us, and James thought it would be an excellent candidate for a student number: strong I-IV-V shuffle, and with some hard "hits" - the sort of thing that is easy to learn fast and is effective. :) So "Walkin' By Myself" was to be The Song.
There wasn't any lesson plan for that afternoon, it being devoted to arrival day, so we all agreed to jump in and start working on The Song. Due to Bob's previous experience with it, and James' apparent ability to play *anything*, they were soon leading us through a halfway-passable version. We even tried doing a round of solos. :) This was decidedly encouraging, but the prospect of actually getting up on stage was still fairly terrifying, to me at least. But, I figured I couldn't die from it, and if they could do it I could do it.
We worked in the classroom until about four and then headed over to the bookstore and got our books. You're required to pay a book fee of approximately $30. In our case the books we got were "Theory for the Contemporary Guitarist" (so-so) and Beginning Blues Guitar by David Hamburger (excellent book). After that we broke for the afternoon and dinner. At seven we met back at the classroom for a half-hour to an hour of what was to become a nightly ritual, "Ensemble Practice". Here we, once again, worked on The Song. :)
After that there was some sort of concert in the auditorium, but I had had a FULL day by then and went home.
Sunday through Wednesday followed a pattern like this, with slight variations:
9-10, music theory, in classroom. This was "applied" theory, and both useful and well-presented. I turned out to lead the class in theory, but I was next-to-last in playing. So much for theory. :)
10-11, technique development, in classroom. This involved a lot of demos, and also in-class practice by all hands. After about a half-hour on the first day, it was agreed by all to leave amplifiers turned off. Yes, we did the rest of the week wailing on our solidbodies without amps in the classroom - and they were plenty loud!
11-12 "rhythm section", on stage in auditorium. For this, we were assigned a student bass player and drummer. This was played with larger stage amps. The school-supplied amps were 3-channel Crates of some sort. We practiced things we had gotten earlier that day, and also ran through The Song once or twice.
12-1 lunch. For me, crackers in the student lounge.
1-2 Blues vocabulary in the classroom. This is stuff like intros, endings, turnarounds, licks, etc. Building blocks of songs. On Monday this period was a clinic by Ron Thal in the auditorium, about which more later.
2-3 This varied by day. We had Chord Accompaniment on Sunday. Monday was your choice of continuing with Ron Thal or coming back to the classroom for Blues Improv. Most of us elected the latter. For practice we worked on, you guessed it, our solos for The Song. On Tuesday this was blues licks/signature licks, and on Wednesday it was Jazz Blues.
3-4 is "Minors". These are hour-long specialty sessions, and you can go to whichever ones you choose. There are 4 or 5 choices per day, most of them pretty interesting. I took Altered Tunings and Slide Guitar on two days, and blew it off on others. Both these sessions were incredibly informative for the very short time you spent. I have months of material to work on from each.
4-6 is free time and dinner
7-8 is ensemble practice. The Song. On Sunday and Tuesday this was in the classroom, on Monday we were on stage with the rhythm section and amps, and Wednesday we had sound check (the sound guy was irritating - just like real life!)
As you can see, the day is mostly divided into "hours" of material. To give you an idea of how much would be covered in an hour, Tuesdays 9-10 "Improvising" included "alternating major and minor pentatonics", "the blues scale", "Using Intervals", and some other stuff. The next hour, "Rhythm Guitar" included "Stop Time", "Palm Muting", "Boogie Woogie", "Muddy Waters style", and "Buddy Guy riffs". All this is presented with some theory, some demos, and some practice. So what that amounts to is you get about 10-20 minutes with a concept at most, and it's time to move along. Not long.
This was the strongest impression I had of the whole deal. It's a firehose. It's NOT like taking lessons. They shoot information at you just as fast as they can, and don't stop. It really is a year's worth of material to work on, at least. Intense, and quite tiring for a geezer like me.
Well, I made it through the week, and even played a solo in the concert. I still can't believe I did that.
I thought that I had learned a lot, but wasn't sure. I saw many of my fellows improve greatly during the week, and they all said the same of me, but I stilll had some doubts. Until after I got home after the concert. For the first time in a week, I didn't have to practice The Song, so I started playing some of my favorite noodling material. Wow. I can't believe how much my ability improved in one week. Amazing. I still suck, but I can do this. I can play guitar.
Today (Thursday) was sort of optional. No material, but class was there for if you had questions or whatnot. Since I lived close enough to haul gear I took a bunch of my better guitars and amps up and we had a gear show and tell. The lineup? James' incredible Suhr, my R9 Les Paul, Sub-Sonic Strat (baritone), Big Apple Strat, a Strat Plus Ultra, and an unusually nice Epi '56 Goldtop Les Paul. For amps we had a DRRI, a '58 Ampeg Rocket, and two different heads for my Raezer's Edge cab (with Hot Plate): James' kickin' '73 metalpanel Marshall Super Lead 100 with post-PI master, and my '68 Bassman (an extra-fine sample, if I do say so meself). Yeah, we had some fun. :) James continued to pass on a wealth of info, this time oriented towards gear and tone. I was blown away by how good my gear sounded in James' hands. When I suck, it's not because of the gear. :)
Bottom line? I'm pooped, and full-up, and incredibly exhilarated. I've guess I've made about 4-6 months progress in a week. And I actually played in a band, in front of an audience. We were *good*, too. I've heard plenty of bar bands that were worse, and I'm not kidding. Big, big, gains for a self-taught couch player. :)
Only nits were certain minor disorganizations by the staff, and the Lack Of Sufficient Air Conditioning. Grrr. I'm a (modern) Florida boy. I expect dew on the windows.
I'll be back next year, same bat-time, same bat-channel. Oh yeah. :)
Gannet
Contributing Member
**
St. Petersburg, FL
Lounge ProphetJul 3rd, 2003 08:21 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Wow, did that ever turn out to be long. Sorry about that.
About what to bring. You don't need an amp. Seriously, you don't. Maybe in Rock you would, but not for blues class. You can't hear yourself think in these tiny rooms with 6 people playing (badly) with amps on "one". You don't need a guitar stand. It's in your hand or in the case almost the whole time. A music stand would sometimes be helpful, but the more stuff you have, the more hassle. Definitely have a tuner and cable. A slide and picks. Capo might be nice. There are a couple of large music stores within a few miles in case something goes bad. I lived out of a backpack, but then I didn't have a room there.
About Ron Thal, aka "Bumblefoot". This guy is incredible. A maniac. Funny as all get out, and also very inspirational. Plus he's got the wackiest guitar you ever saw. Not to be missed if you get the chance.
trumpet77
Contributing Member
USADumfries/VirginiaJul 3rd, 2003 09:19 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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thanks for the details, that sounds really cool!
and keep up the practicing and playing too.
odourboy
USA/South Bay Area
Play Slow Learn FastJul 3rd, 2003 10:29 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Thanks Gannet. It's very interesting to get someone elses perspecitve on the NGW. I took Jazz 1 last summer in Toronto. In most ways, a very similar experience to yours except 1) I absolutely needed my practice amp. In fact the only time I didn't need it was for the student concert where we all played through a stage full of more serious amps (I used a JC-120 for example) 2) You barely acknowleged the evening concerts - which made the week for me because I was blown away by the talent of the instructors and guest artists they had last year.
Oh ya - I was so baked by the end of it I couldn't play anything :-)
Happily, I am returning this summer (although Toronto is now operating independently of the NGW) - hopefully I'll make the cut for Jazz II.
Gannet
Contributing Member
**
St. Petersburg, FL
Lounge ProphetJul 4th, 2003 05:24 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Yes, I should probably have mentioned more about the evening concerts. The thing is, I didn't attend any of them. :)
By the time I got done with rehersal it was 8:00, then drive home and it's 9:00, a couple of hours for dinner and practice and it's shuteye until next morning, then do it all again. No time or energy to spare for the concerts. One advantage to staying on-campus.
For those wondering what we're talking about, every night at 8:00 there are concerts in the auditorium. Sometimes by the faculty and/or guest artists, sometimes by the students.
I'm curious that you'd need an amp for jazz class. Did they really have everyone playing through amps, in class? Didn't it get a little, um, loud and confused?
djangodude
Contributing Member
Canada-Ottawa
Look far, think fast, and enjoy...Jul 4th, 2003 06:27 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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Very good review indeed!
Very interesting and informative read.
I'm also signed up at the Toronto NGW+ session for the jazz classes.
I'm really looking forward to it as the benefits are IMO multilevel. There's the learning aspect, the tried and true musical influences, and most importantly the inspirational.
I've been playing guitar for 37 years (21 professional) and I never payed myself any musical lessons (self-taught).
I think it's about time :)
Gannet
Contributing Member
**
St. Petersburg, FL
Lounge ProphetJul 4th, 2003 07:16 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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A couple of thoughts on side effects and issues.
You don't normally think of a Les Paul as an acoustic guitar. :) But that's what mine had to be, for some days. I *had* to get tone out of it, and make it be heard. This had the effect of teaching me a LOT about how to wring sound out of that particular guitar. A very interesting exercise. My relationship with that guitar is permanently changed, for the better.
After playing on stage, I'm now *much* happier and more comfortable with my bridge pickup than I ever was before. Playing solo and in a band is very different. Ok, duh, for those of you who have done this. :) For me, it was enlightening. I now have a broader appreciation for what my guitar can do.
As an example, during The Song I need to play rather softly in a few places, where everybody is pounding out the intro hook, and also for comping. Then, since having six guitars doing the chords is overwhelming, I mostly lay out until a couple bars later, where me and another guy play some (different) "horn fills" that James worked out. It sounded cool as heck, btw. :) Finally I have to do the solo, and since I don't trust the sound guy to kick it up, I want my own boost thankyouverymuch. Combine the need for three volumes with my pedalless, boostless, two-knob Ampeg and I was forced to turn to the guitar. The Ampeg was set on 10, with a Hot Plate to knock off 8 dB (did I mention the sound guy was irritating?). I set the neck pickup on 5 and the bridge on 10. Neck only was the soft sound, for the hook and comping, both was the horn fill sound, and bridge was lead. Neck only was backed-off enough that the Ampeg was almost completely clean, both pickups introduced some crunch, and bridge only was a very crunchy grind. Between those three settings and variations in playing dynamics I was covered. It worked a treat. Sure, this is all old hat to all experienced players, but for me it was a very interesting learning.
Of course the kids in the group all just stomped on the Enraged Mosquito switch on the Crates for their boost. :)
As is common in this sort of thing, there's a fair amount of bonding among the students in a group by the end of the week. We've all exchanged emails and plan to stay in touch. We'll see. :) A couple of the guys live reasonably close, within 100 miles or so, so there is at least the possibility of a jam at some future point.
Each school session has two basic "types" of classes, those that are based on the core NGW curriculum (Blues 1, Jazz 2, etc.), taught by regular NGW staff, and those that are "master" presentations by guest artists. If you're a beginner or intermediate player you're probably better served by the former, and advanced players may be better served by the latter. No matter which way you go, it's inevitable that you'll be grouped with some folks that are a fair amount ahead of or behind you, and you just have to be patient while that is dealt with. :)
Bill Barnard
Contributing Member
USA
Playin' the blues in Gainesville, FLJul 4th, 2003 01:13 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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"Yes, I should probably have mentioned more about the evening concerts. The thing is, I didn't attend any of them."
You may well have missed one of the best parts of NGW. The evening concerts were jaw dropping events when I was there.
Gannet
Contributing Member
**
St. Petersburg, FL
Lounge ProphetJul 4th, 2003 08:41 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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.
henryk16
USA
henryk16Jul 7th, 2003 06:23 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search
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I am going to the 7/22-7/26 session in CT. Rockabilly with Mark Gamsjager and guest Jim Weider. It's the the week of the Rock Summit. Anyone else going then, too? I'm from north Jersey, looking for playing partners.
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